Originally posted by FabianFnasYour reasoning is flawed. A piece can be forced to move more than once.
I don't believe it!
One has to take the 50 move limit for a draw into account.
Since there is 5 picese on board then the 50 move rule can apply for 5 times 50 move, i.e. 250 moves.
If there is no mate within 250 moves there is a draw. Mate in 517 is impossible.
Here is an article about it: http://www.xs4all.nl/~timkr/chess2/diary.htm
These discoveries are more important from a theoretical point of view rather than a practical one. I agree that in a normal game, the 50 move rule could come into effect.
Such discoveries question the validity of the 50 move rule for future games, especially those between computers. This rule has been revised in the past, and may be revised in the future.
Originally posted by Mephisto2If (a) a pawn not has moved or (b) a piece is not taken, then it is draw after 50 moves. The 50 move rule is one of the reasons (besides other rules) a game turns into a draw.
Your reasoning is flawed. A piece can be forced to move more than once.
Here is an article about it: http://www.xs4all.nl/~timkr/chess2/diary.htm
In this particular game (a) there is no pawns to be moved and (b) no piece has been taken in the first 50 moves. This gives us that this game is draw after 50 moves and there is no mate to be found.
Why is theese players continuing a game that is an obvious draw?
Why do you think that "a piece can be forced to move more than once" has anything to do weather this game is a draw or not? Why do you think my reasoning is flawed?
And even that - there is a 518'th move in your URL-link and even after that ithe text says "518.Qxg5+ and White wins" So it takes more than 518 moves to win, not precisely 517 moves to mate.
Originally posted by FabianFnasI agree with what you state about the 50 move rule.
>> "Why is theese players continuing a game that is an obvious draw?"
This is not an actual game. It's a theoretical chess discovery. And even with the 50 move rule, it's not an obvious draw.
You are correct that my title is inaccurate; I shouldn't have used the word 'checkmate'. But my initial post is correct.
Originally posted by FabianFnasYou are right about the rule. I misinterpreted what you wrote, mainly because I had read the article in the link myself shortly before and was probably too eager to support the first poster than to read more carefully. Sorry for that.
If (a) a pawn not has moved or (b) a piece is not taken, then it is draw after 50 moves. The 50 move rule is one of the reasons (besides other rules) a game turns into a draw.
In this particular game (a) there is no pawns to be moved and (b) no piece has been taken in the first 50 moves. This gives us that this game is draw after 50 moves and there is ...[text shortened]... 5+ and White wins" So it takes more than 518 moves to win, not precisely 517 moves to mate.
The 518 vs 517 moves is because it is black to move, and white to win in 517 moves.
Theoretical analyses like these are often used as arguments against the 50-move rule, especially in the arena of computer chess.
Originally posted by VarenkaThanks. A lot has happened since October: 243 moves stood as the record for 15 years, then 290 for less than six months; then 330, and now 517. How long will this record hold? Bets, anyone.
See the link posted by Mephisto2...
i.e http://www.xs4all.nl/~timkr/chess2/diary.htm
It mentions the previous record.
Here's the original post by the guys who accomplished this:
http://216.25.93.108/forum/viewtopic.php?topic_view=threads&p=19242&t=2860
fascinating stuff here.
"Generation and verification took
a little over a month on a 3.8 GHZ machine. Yakov and I had thought it so
unlikely that any 7-man ending would require more than 511 moves that we had
hard-coded 511 in a number of places. "
I assume the solution was brute-forced? If so, a month is really not that long of a time to generate such a complex solution. This could potentially lead to some incredible computer tournaments in the future　if they decide to remove the 50-move rule.
"In total, we have
now generated results for over 21 trillion legal positions, covering about 20%
of all pawnless 7-man endings. About 1.5 million positions are mutual
zugzwangs, and 13 are full-point mutual zugzwangs."
Does anyone know the difference between a mutual zugzwang and a full-point mutual zugzwang?