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Originally posted by robbie carrobie
sure, perhaps they will learn from its success 😀 anyhow can I ask you a chess question? it concerns moves like whites thirteenth 13.Ndb5, why are moves like this made, is it simply to put some pressure on blacks position, it doesn't really threaten anything in itself me thinks, its as if white is just kinda fishing around, if you know what i mean, l ...[text shortened]... . Nxg7 Rxe3 36. fxe3 Nxf3 37. Nh5 Ne5 38. Nf6+ Kg7 39. Rxd6 Rxd6 40. Ne8+ Kf8 41. Nxd6 1-0[/pgn]

Nb5 prevents the c-pawn from moving as black will lose his d-pawn. White is taking advantage of the fact the black has given away control of b5 by playing a5 previously. It's an interesting idea, it also restricts blacks Queen from coming into the game on the d8-a5 diagonal. Normally blacks white bishop would be the problem, but white seems to have managed to swap that problem for a problem developing the Queen instead.

I'm pretty surprised that black elected to sac the bishop on h3. It would seem that ..Bb7 and ..Nc5 seem pretty natural, putting pressure on e4. Maybe they saw a problem with this idea..?

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
Nb5 prevents the c-pawn from moving as black will lose his d-pawn. White is taking advantage of the fact the black has given away control of b5 by playing a5 previously. It's an interesting idea, it also restricts blacks Queen from coming into the game on the d8-a5 diagonal. Normally blacks white bishop would be the problem, but white seems to have manag ...[text shortened]... nd ..Nc5 seem pretty natural, putting pressure on e4. Maybe they saw a problem with this idea..?

thats good, so its simply designed to put pressure on blacks position and restrict his options, probably the bishop sacrifice seems not too bad an idea, materially black gives knight and bishop for rook and pawn and whites pawn cover around the king is wrecked, but black cannot take advantage of it and faffs around with his queen for ages, Bb7 and Nf6 looks good to me, that queens knight of white is pure awesome throughout the entire game,

its amazing concept for me, the threats are not really able to be carried out, but their potency is in their potential to be carried out, they are just as powerful whether they are carried out or not, like a feint in boxing, I'm not really going to hit you but if you react, I might!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
thats good, so its simply designed to put pressure on blacks position and restrict his options, probably the bishop sacrifice seems not too bad an idea, materially black gives knight and bishop for rook and pawn and whites pawn cover around the king is wrecked, but black cannot take advantage of it and faffs around with his queen for ages, Bb7 and Nf6 looks good to me

Yeh, it looks like a classic example of launching an attack before you've secured a positional advantage. Black needed a little more patience, his position after 13.Nb5 was sound enough, all his pieces had squares, white had no real threats. It appears that black was unwilling to enter a phase of manoeuvring/relocation. I say this without looking to deeply into what the options are, it is possible black looked into this at length and found nothing better than hack and slash. It's a rich position though, everything is still on the board. A lot of players simply can't handle quiet positions, Carlsen has based a career on them and look where he is. 🙂

EDIT: It's interesting to note that blacks ..Ng4 enticed h3, at which point the knight retreats back where it came from. What was going on there? Was the intention to get white to play h3?? Or maybe he wanted to go to e5 after but bottled out. Had he played the more natural ..Nc5 there would have been a quite typical KID position where everything swings around e4. I wonder why he didn't go that way?

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
Yeh, it looks like a classic example of launching an attack before you've secured a positional advantage. Black needed a little more patience, his position after 13.Nb5 was sound enough, all his pieces had squares, white had no real threats. It appears that black was unwilling to enter a phase of manoeuvring/relocation. I say this without looking to deep ...[text shortened]... simply can't handle quiet positions, Carlsen has based a career on them and look where he is. 🙂

wow this is amazing, its generally considered prudent to try to attain a positional advantage prior to attacking, that just makes so much sense, any little examples?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
wow this is amazing, its generally considered prudent to try to attain a positional advantage prior to attacking, that just makes so much sense, any little examples?

Goodness, now you're asking. Let me have a think on it, this might take a while to find a good example. This isn't a new concept..

Steinitz's Four Rules of Strategy
1.The right to attack belongs to the side that has a positional advantage, which not only has the right to attack, but the obligation to do so, else the advantage will evaporate. The attack should be concentrated on the weakest square in the opponent's position.
2.If in an inferior position, the defender should be ready to defend and make compromises, or take other measures, such as a desperate counterattack.
3.In an equal position, the opponents should maneuver, trying to achieve a position in which they have an advantage. If both sides play correctly, an equal position will remain equal.
4.The advantage may be a big, indivisible one, or it may be a whole series of small advantages. The goal of the stronger side is to store up the advantages, and then to convert temporary advantages into permanent ones.

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
Goodness, now you're asking. Let me have a think on it, this might take a while to find a good example. This isn't a new concept..

Steinitz's Four Rules of Strategy
1.The right to attack belongs to the side that has a positional advantage, which not only has the right to attack, but the obligation to do so, else the advantage will evaporate. The a ...[text shortened]... is to store up the advantages, and then to convert temporary advantages into permanent ones.

Steintz, what a genius!

Been here quite a few times as Black


The usual (best IMO) move is 11...Nc5 to which White usually replies 12.f3.

Not sure about 11....Ng4 but I see the idea(s).

It was trap ( 😉 ) Black is hoping White will jump at the chance of
doubling Black pawns on the c-file and isolating the a-pawn and play 12.Nc6.
(trust me once a player reads how weak doubled and isolated pawns are
they will doing anything to inflict them on their opponent.)

So after 12.Nc6 anticipatong 12...cxb6 and Qxg4


Black plays 12...Qh5 with hits on h2 and f2 and the c6 Knight is still
hanging waiting to double and isolate pawns.

The other idea is after h3 if the game swings back to normal lines
with White playimg f3.


Then you can see c6, Nh5, Qf6 and Bxh3 shots appearing.
In the actual game after White played h3 the f-pawn stayed on f2 to
cover g3.

In the game Ndb5 is a good move presenting Black with problems.


Bg5 (hence 12....h6) and Nd5 are floating about, the Black Rooks are
forkable with a Knight on c7.
It cannot be kicked with c7-c6 due to the weak d6 pawn.
Though KID players are always ready to sac this d6 pawn much in the same
way a K.G. player is prepared to toss his f-pawn.
However here is not the time.

Yes Bxh3 looked a gamble but look at the position. (Black to play)


Surface scans and I'm looking at Bxb6 and Rxd6 or Nxd6, then there is
Nxc7 and Nd5 hitting the Queen and b6....maybe...maybe not.

Nd5 and you have the the hit c7.

Now f4 and e5 look good with the d6 pawn pinned and to hell with the hole at g3.

Mix that with some of the combo ideas mentioned earlier and Black is going
to get sqeezed out of the game both positionally and tactically.

Yes ideally you should only attack with you have the superior position
but thanks to the Ng4 experiment that is not going to happen.
Black is not attacking, Black is staying alive.

He has decided OTB not to go down like a whimpering slug but put up a fight.
The art is spotting the moment, leave it too late and it always that.
Too late.

Bxh3 takes the pin off the d6 pawn and the sting from f2-f4 which looks
like a severe threat; It also let's White know he still has his win but
it is not going to be as easy as a positional crush facing no counter play.

Black did not like what he saw coming so pinged a piece at White.
Seen it work 100 times at our level, the spec sac to get back into the game
and cloud the waters.
(Come up and see my score book sometime.)

But White was up for it. It was his day. Good game.

thanks GP thats pretty awesome 😀