Only Chess
31 Mar 07
31 Mar 07
I may get alot of howls over what I am about to say, but I will say it anyway. I have been playing chess off and on for 40 years. I am not a great player by any manner of speaking. I can hold my own against most. I don't play particularly well in speed games anymore. In my youth I achieved the rank of expert. For 4 years I won many tournaments in high school. I have never studied chess openings, endings, theories. Some would argue that is why I never got any better. I choose to think it was as much to do with having a full time job and helping to put 4 kids through college (2 down and 2 to go actually). I have a rich background in logic. It just makes sense to me. As such, chess strategy evokes a good deal of logic theory in me. Now for the part that will get howls....I am not sure if others see the same things I do when I look at a chess board, but I see Geometric patterns and progressions. The movement just makes sense. I have always played by my boot straps. Sometimes (often, in fact) I miss things that others react to because they have memorized the play sequences. However, there are times when I have come up with move sequences where people asked me who I learned them from, and I tell them form no one, they just happened. I think outside the box quite a bit. Do any of you experience these patterns and progressions? I am just curious to know. Thanks in advance for sharing and for not throwing rocks at me.
31 Mar 07
Originally posted by shortcircuitI'm all about pattern recognition. I make a lot of sacrifices, always based not on worked out lines, but "this seems like something I've seen before." Whether they are sound or not doesn't necessarily matter. I'm not a 'geometric' type of guy, but rather intuitive.
I may get alot of howls over what I am about to say, but I will say it anyway. I have been playing chess off and on for 40 years. I am not a great player by any manner of speaking. I can hold my own against most. I don't play particularly well in speed games anymore. In my youth I achieved the rank of expert. For 4 years I won many tournaments in high s ...[text shortened]... ons? I am just curious to know. Thanks in advance for sharing and for not throwing rocks at me.
31 Mar 07
There are times when I look for the patterns, and there are times when I play by the book. For example, I love working with my knights...I have loved the l-shaped movement since I ever learned about it, and since then, I have grown to learn and recognize how I can move around my knights to best fit into the puzzle. I think I know what you're saying, and it's not all that controversial, at least to me.
31 Mar 07
When I first look at the board my mind is identifying patterns. The patterns I see, if any, are usually indications of tactical opportunities and I can see these immediately. There comes a point where you can see this progression you're talking about, but that's just experience in those positions. It sounds like you're suggesting you have a certain intuition at the board, but intuition is just knowledge + experience. There's nothing magical/mystical about it.
IMO
31 Mar 07
Originally posted by ChesswickHere's what I'm talking about:
When I first look at the board my mind is identifying patterns. The patterns I see, if any, are usually indications of tactical opportunities and I can see these immediately. There comes a point where you can see this progression you're talking about, but that's just experience in those positions. It sounds like you're suggesting you have a certain intu ...[text shortened]... ntuition is just knowledge + experience. There's nothing magical/mystical about it.
IMO
[Event "Rated game, 3m + 0s"]
[Site "Main Playing Hall"]
[Date "2007.03.31"]
[Round "?"]
[White "CMSMaster"]
[Black "Us6"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "E90"]
[WhiteElo "1460"]
[BlackElo "1477"]
[PlyCount "54"]
[EventDate "2007.03.31"]
[TimeControl "180"]
1. e4 {5} g6 {1} 2. d4 {1} Bg7 {1} 3. Nf3 {1} d6 {1} 4. c4 {2} Nf6 {1} 5. Nc3 {
2} b6 {2} 6. Be2 {2} Bb7 {1} 7. O-O {1} Nxe4 {1} 8. Qd3 {3} Nxc3 {1} 9. bxc3 {3
} Nc6 {1} 10. Ng5 {3} O-O {3} 11. Qh3 {2} h6 {1} 12. Nxf7 {9} Rxf7 {2} 13. Bxh6
{1} Bxh6 {5} 14. Qxh6 {1} Qf8 {6} 15. Qxg6+ {1} Qg7 {1} 16. Qe4 {8} e5 {6} 17.
c5 {1} Re8 {4} 18. Bc4 {2} exd4 {22} 19. Bxf7+ {1} Qxf7 {3} 20. Qg4+ {7} Qg7 {3
} 21. Qxg7+ {1} Kxg7 {2} 22. cxd4 {2} Nxd4 {1} 23. cxd6 {3} cxd6 {2} 24. Rfd1 {
3} Ne2+ {3} 25. Kf1 {7} Ba6 {5} 26. Rxd6 {12} Nf4+ {11} 27. Kg1 {2} Ne2+ {
CMSMaster offers a draw (Lag: Av=0.40s, max=0.9s) 4} 1/2-1/2
Just finished that, I meant to play 19.Qxe8+ but accidentally got a bit too excited there...
31 Mar 07
Originally posted by cmsMasterAhh. Yeah, I do that sometimes as well. I find that my mind tends to prefer some tactical opportunities to others, so if that one is available I have to almost pause my mind and look for others. Not sure why that is.
Here's what I'm talking about:
[Event "Rated game, 3m + 0s"]
[Site "Main Playing Hall"]
[Date "2007.03.31"]
[Round "?"]
[White "CMSMaster"]
[Black "Us6"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "E90"]
[WhiteElo "1460"]
[BlackElo "1477"]
[PlyCount "54"]
[EventDate "2007.03.31"]
[TimeControl "180"]
1. e4 {5} g6 {1} 2. d4 {1} Bg7 {1} 3. Nf3 {1} d6 {1} 4. c4 ...[text shortened]... ant to play 19.Qxe8+ but accidentally got a bit too excited there...
Nice game though. Really bold attack.
31 Mar 07
Originally posted by ChesswickBold, but completely unsound, though 19.Qxe8+ is decisive.
Ahh. Yeah, I do that sometimes as well. I find that my mind tends to prefer some tactical opportunities to others, so if that one is available I have to almost pause my mind and look for others. Not sure why that is.
Nice game though. Really bold attack.
31 Mar 07
1 edit
Originally posted by shortcircuitI'm certainly not going to howl at you, but your post is intriguing. Based on your resume of being a former expert, I would think your RHP rating would be much higher. Any ideas why it isn't? Was the expert rating in only very fast time controls? (I'm not criticizing, just curious.)
In my youth I achieved the rank of expert. For 4 years I won many tournaments in high school. I have never studied chess openings, endings, theories.
Also, you mentioned that you never formally studied any theory. I suspect that hurt (hurts?) you a little, but maybe not as much as people would think. My guess is that you had to pick up a little theory at least by osmosis if nothing else, from post-mortem analysis of tournament games. Also, I remember that Dan Heisman (a good chess instructor in the USA) has mentioned that he got to around a 2100 USCF rating without learning very much theory. (At 2100 USCF, he once lost an easily drawable Philidor position because he had never even heard of it.) Dan thinks that his good rating at the time was mostly due to him being pretty good at what he calls the "Big Five" - tactics, piece activity, time management, thought process, and general principles. (Of course, Dan subsequently learned a lot of theory - he had to learn theory to become a very good instructor!)
31 Mar 07
Originally posted by shortcircuitI suspect that what you're seeing is the same as what others see. It's all a matter of learning lots of patterns and being able to recognize them when they occur in a game. (I'm just beginning to learn these patterns, and I'm sure your mental pattern database is much larger than mine.) Along the way, you may have learned some unusual patterns that many others haven't noticed, and some others may know patterns that you've never learned. Of course, when you don't see a known pattern on the board, then you have to use calculation, general principles, or intuition.
I am not sure if others see the same things I do when I look at a chess board, but I see Geometric patterns and progressions. The movement just makes sense. I have always played by my boot straps. Sometimes (often, in fact) I miss things that others react to because they have memorized the play sequences. However, there are times when I have come up wit ...[text shortened]... ions? I am just curious to know. Thanks in advance for sharing and for not throwing rocks at me.
And I'm not really sure what you mean by seeing progressions. Do you mean that during the calculation process, some known patterns will pop up at you?
31 Mar 07
Originally posted by Mad RookActually, back when my rating was expert, I was playing 2-3 hours a day, every day because I was still in school. Once I got out of school and the real world hit me, work took over. I had my own business which consumed 70-80 hours a week. I had no one at home to play chess with, online chess was non-existent at the time, and there wasn't time for going to the chess club anymore. Beside an occasional skittles game when my dad came to visit, my chess game has been mothballed for 25 years. It is only in the last year that I have begun playing again. I still work 50-60 hours a week and now have 3 businesses, but internet chess has offered me an avenue. I only strated RHP a short time ago. I was playing on UChess, but my speed skill has deteriorated so badly. I am going through a re-birthing of sorts. No real aspirations, just trying to enjoy the game again. Of course, the competitive side of me still wants to win, but there are many talented players out there. I find that I have played very well at times and very poorly at others. I deal with it.
I'm certainly not going to howl at you, but your post is intriguing. Based on your resume of being a former expert, I would think your RHP rating would be much higher. Any ideas why it isn't? Was the expert rating in only very fast time controls? (I'm not criticizing, just curious.)
Also, you mentioned that you never formally studied any theory. I suspec ...[text shortened]... quently learned a lot of theory - he had to learn theory to become a very good instructor!)
Regarding the studying, I never did it. All of my learning is from playing. I have played chess against computers and people, but I never had a strong instructor, so I was picking things up as I saw them. I have already seen things online that I had never seen before. This fried fox was way out there. Still haven't figured that one out. LOL.
31 Mar 07
Originally posted by Mad RookExactly. With the progressions I see combinations of paterens for action and reaction, for lack of a better term. I guess that is the calculating part. I see a pattern, assume the response, see my counter response, etc... All of this is predicated on several things
I suspect that what you're seeing is the same as what others see. It's all a matter of learning lots of patterns and being able to recognize them when they occur in a game. (I'm just beginning to learn these patterns, and I'm sure your mental pattern database is much larger than mine.) Along the way, you may have learned some unusual patterns that many othe ...[text shortened]... Do you mean that during the calculation process, some known patterns will pop up at you?
1. that I know what the best response could be (if not I get a rude awakening...)
2. that my opponent will make that response (if I do have the best response and my opponent makes less that the best response...sauce for the goose), and
3. that I don't muck up the process by moving out of sequence due to getting ahead of myself (unfortunately, happens more than I would like it to).
01 Apr 07
Originally posted by cmsMasterThat seems like much more exciting- but risky- style of play than mine.
I'm all about pattern recognition. I make a lot of sacrifices, always based not on worked out lines, but "this seems like something I've seen before." Whether they are sound or not doesn't necessarily matter. I'm not a 'geometric' type of guy, but rather intuitive.