Originally posted by schakuhrAye schakuhr good point! The knight must go back so 14..Ng5 then 15. Qxc5 Ne6 I guess to scare away the queen 16. Qb5 Nc7 and the b pawn is immune as after 17. Qxb7 17..Rb8 gives black a big attack when a look over the board has a knight on the rim and that bishop on d1. I think 12..Nh3+ is playable in a game definitely but v this Chessmaster thing I don't know. Is Chessmaster like really quiet and then when you get him angry he does an Incredible Hulk and pulverises you? I can't see a reutation of 12..Nh3+ and it follows on from the 11..Nf4 plan playing actively. The line after 12..Nd3 leads to liquidation on c5 and does not offer enough opportunities I think anyway. Longer term half move ideas must involve f5 with the multi-purpose idea of preventing the freeing e4 which is supported by schakuhr's 14. f3 but also importantly allows the rook over and our queen should go to h4.
I like the line with Nh3+, but what do we play after 14. f3 ? (seems a bit better, not giving up the d4 square)
Hi Welsharnie I see what your saying that 12..Nh3+ looks risky especially against a computer (it is the move against the vast majority of human opponents though is thing to get though) so maybe after the line with us losing a pawn on c5 i.e. 12..Nd3 13. Nxc5 Nxc5 14. Qxc5 Rc8 then white has a choice of moves but I still think we have to get this f5, Qh4, Rf6-Rg6, Bh3 half move plan etc. into effect quickly. On 12..Nd3 13. Nxc5 Nxc5 14. Qxc5 Rc8 15. d4 is a drawn position with best play I think after liquidation on d4 so there must be something better for white than 15. d4. Anyone have any idea because if we do play 12..Nd3 we need to know ho to respond to something other than 15. d4 maybe 15. d3 or even 15. f4? I just think we have more options with 12..Nh3+!? than the more solid 12..Nd3 where we can at least predict moves because they look forced to me anyhow. It's a judgement call so betweeen 12..Nd3 and 12..Nh3+ if indeed the check does not have a straightforward refutation I am not seeing.
hmm....
Nxg2, Nh3+ offer attacks but i checked them out - White can defend and keep the material...
QED: -
Nxg2, kxg2, Qh4, Kh1, Bh3, Rg1, Qxf2
thats the best i found - and that attack is easily refuted (i.e D4)
Ng6, Nd5 don't seem to do much (other than get the knight out of trouble.)
Nd3 gets my vote - after Nxc5 we will be a pawn down put that seems to be the best defence....
If nxc5 isn't played we canadvance the "E" and "C" pawns in hope to cramp his position...
Ok, I've been looking at this for the past hour.
Here is my analysis (its not much) so far (I think we've agreed that 13. gxh3 is bad)
12...Nh3+ 13. Kh1 Bd5 14. f3/d3
After this I really don't think we have an attack. We still lose the c5 pawn.
Assuming f3
14... Qh4 loses to gxh3
14... c4 loses to...yep...gxh3
We could retreat with ng5 but then what was the point of nh3 in the first place.
Im gonna have to change my vote to Nd3 please.
Originally posted by micarr11...Nh3+ 12.Kh1 Bd5 13.e4 Qh4
Aye schakuhr good point! The knight must go back so 14..Ng5 then 15. Qxc5 Ne6 I guess to scare away the queen 16. Qb5 Nc7 and the b pawn is immune as after 17. Qxb7 17..Rb8 gives black a big attack when a look over the board has a knight on the rim and that bishop on d1. I think 12..Nh3+ is playable in a game definitely but v this Chessmaster thing I don't kn ...[text shortened]... by schakuhr's 14. f3 but also importantly allows the rook over and our queen should go to h4.
14.exd5 Nd4 15.Qxc5 Rfc8 16.Qd6 Nxf2 17.Kg1 Nd3 Black looks alright here.
So we should consider the 14.f3 move
14.f3 Ng5 15.Nxc5 getting the knight of the rim and prevent black from gaining tempo's on the queen compared to Qxc5.
I don't know about this, It like the 11...Nd3 line but white looks a bit better here then in the 11...Nd3 line.
I like the 11...Nh3+ idea but if we can't find anything good for 14.f3 besides Ng5 then it seems like a waste. Anyone found anything good after 14.f3?
Originally posted by RahimK?? unless you show me the line I fail to see how black's position is "alright"
[b]11...Nh3+ 12.Kh1 Bd5 13.e4 Qh4
14.exd5 Nd4 15.Qxc5 Rfc8 16.Qd6 Nxf2 17.Kg1 Nd3 Black looks alright here.
Black is a minor peice down and i really can't see any compensation...
[this is assuming I have followed your line correctly and I haven't made errors]
QED: -
here I played as white - Crafty [got it with Babas] was Black..
18.nc3 f5 19. h3 b5 20. b4 e4 21. rb1 e3 22. ne2 nxe2+ 23. bxe2 nxc1 24.rbxc1
and black cannot play Rxc1 Rxc1 Qf2+ Kh1 Qxe2 Because mate in 2 at c8 follows...thus, white is a Bishop up...the only possible saving grace is that advanced pawn
EDIT: - ^^ well this is now all redundant 🙁 .....
ahwell, Nxc5 is the next move
Originally posted by ShinidokiLovely knights, Black has a huge lead in development, Nxc1 is threatened, Black gets his piece back.
?? unless you show me the line I fail to see how black's position is "alright"
Black is a minor peice down and i really can't see any compensation...
[this is assuming I have followed your line correctly and I haven't made errors]
QED: -
here I played as white - Crafty [got it with Babas] was Black..
18.nc3 f5 19. h3 b5 20. b4 e4 21. rb1 e3 ...[text shortened]... pawn
EDIT: - ^^ well this is now all redundant 🙁 .....
ahwell, Nxc5 is the next move
The bishop on c1 can't be protected in any good ways. At least I don't see any good ways. And there are also king problems for White.
Originally posted by RahimKThe first move of my line defends the bishop nicely....
Lovely knights, Black has a huge lead in development, Nxc1 is threatened, Black gets his piece back.
The bishop on c1 can't be protected in any good ways. At least I don't see any good ways. And there are also king problems for White.
Nc3! - If black trades KxB at c1 its to white advantage - An attacking peice is exchanged for a sitting duck...
And as for the King problems -- I played White against Crafty, and I managed to defend the position (giving it 30sec a move) -- in my opinion, the King "problems" are easily defended, furthermore, without the need to give back material.
EDIT : -
actually I apologize.....Crafty has decided to change its moves, which coincidently mean black is better than I Thought