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  1. Standard member anthias
    ambitious player
    21 Sep '06 14:59
    "Chess is not a house built of common sense and 'logic.'"

    I saw this sentence somewhere while surfing in the Internet. What do you think? I've always believed that if I lose, I did something wrong. I also believe that there is always a perfect move (exept the opening and forced mates) several okay moves and moves that will doom me strategically or tactically later on.

    Comments?
  2. Standard member MCA
    TokerSmurf
    21 Sep '06 15:17 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by anthias
    "Chess is not a house built of common sense and 'logic.'"

    I saw this sentence somewhere while surfing in the Internet. What do you think? I've always believed that if I lose, I did something wrong. I also believe that there is always a perfect move (exept the opening and forced mates) several okay moves and moves that will doom me strategically or tactically later on.

    Comments?
    i would say that common sense and logic play a large part of the game but are not the be all and end all of the game. if it were all common sense and logic then computer chess would be far more advanced.

    because the game is played by humans there is a large amount of emotional considerations to take into account. eg. how many players are happy to qive away thier queen for a mere 'positional' advantage, with nothing more than hope that the position will maybe pay off 20 moves later. yet im sure that there must be examples of this out there.

    and thats not to mention the added drama of trying to figure out your opponents emotional considerations ie. do they hate losing thier queen or do they prefer to swap queens (this type of knowledge can make a big difference to how you would play the game)
  3. Subscriber BigDoggProblemonline
    The Advanced Mind
    21 Sep '06 16:44
    Originally posted by anthias
    "Chess is not a house built of common sense and 'logic.'"

    I saw this sentence somewhere while surfing in the Internet. What do you think? I've always believed that if I lose, I did something wrong. I also believe that there is always a perfect move (exept the opening and forced mates) several okay moves and moves that will doom me strategically or tactically later on.

    Comments?
    I disagree with the quote. I'd like to know what the author thinks it is built on.
  4. 21 Sep '06 18:15
    I guess the point of that quote is to say that there is a psychological aspect of chess, where you try and outwit or confuse your opponent. I believe though, ultimatley, chess is built on logic. Using logic within chess is a good idea. Ignoring the psychological implications of some strange move is encouraged. You can see the possibilities, use that sight logically and you will win games. I think the quote is flawed by its own logic as it is the house of the human mind which is not entirely built on logic, not the house of chess.
  5. 21 Sep '06 21:44
    What good is common sense? Common sense tells us that heavy objects fall faster than light ones and that buying in bulk saves money. As for logic, I'd say that there is a logical structure to chess, but I wouldn't say that chess is a highly logic-driven game. Clue and Mastermind are, but not chess. You don't make deductions, you look for strong moves.
  6. 22 Sep '06 00:48
    Originally posted by shotokanguy
    What good is common sense? Common sense tells us that heavy objects fall faster than light ones and that buying in bulk saves money. As for logic, I'd say that there is a logical structure to chess, but I wouldn't say that chess is a highly logic-driven game. Clue and Mastermind are, but not chess. You don't make deductions, you look for strong moves.
    heavy objects don't fall faster than heavy ones.
  7. 22 Sep '06 01:56
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    heavy objects don't fall faster than heavy ones.
    Yeah, his sentence is a little strange. He makes that statement and I assumed it was sarcasm meaning that common sense has fooled us. Then he said that buying in bulk saves money, which may or may not be true depending on your perspective. That sentence needs clarification.
  8. 22 Sep '06 03:18
    Originally posted by cmsMaster
    Yeah, his sentence is a little strange. He makes that statement and I assumed it was sarcasm meaning that common sense has fooled us. Then he said that buying in bulk saves money, which may or may not be true depending on your perspective. That sentence needs clarification.
    No, you have it right. He means that which may seem logical or true is not always. For example, buying in bulk or with coupons may not save you money if you buy more than you really need. even if it is cheap on a per item basis.

    There is a local car brake repair service here (Minneapolis) that has a jingle, something like "Whatchu gonna do with all the cash you save?!" I always found this hilarious, because the only way you can see a car brake repair as "saving" money is if you actually budgeted for a car repair, then a low repair bill left you with a discretionary surplus.
  9. 22 Sep '06 10:15
    Originally posted by shotokanguy
    What good is common sense? Common sense tells us that heavy objects fall faster than light ones and that buying in bulk saves money. As for logic, I'd say that there is a logical structure to chess, but I wouldn't say that chess is a highly logic-driven game. Clue and Mastermind are, but not chess. You don't make deductions, you look for strong moves.
    yes and you find strong moves by picking a random square on the board and seeing if you can move a piece there, thats how i do it at least. wait hold on thats bingo.
    Logic is based on cause and effect, every move you mkae you are reacting to your opponents previous move(s) and planning his reaction to your move(s). Common sense not so much, although there is a heuristic evaluation process sometimes (rarely).

    Of course amature chess is not based on logic and common sense and is instead based on impulse.
  10. 22 Sep '06 10:24
    heavy objects fall faster than light ones because of wind resistance.
    that is to say to objects of the same form and cross section haver the same drag (force) the one with more mass will accelerate faster as it falls. however at some point they both reach the same terminal velocity, although the heavier one gets there first.
  11. 22 Sep '06 14:46
    A clarification... what I meant was that a) common sense doesn't always give us the right answer, and b) common sense isn't very relevant to chess. Common sense is based on the collected wisdom of life experiences, and chess skill is based on pattern recognition and calculation, among other things, which are quite specific to chess.

    I believe that Galileo was the one who proved that heavy objects and light objects fall at the same speed, though yes, wind resistance could be an additional factor.
  12. 22 Sep '06 21:26
    Originally posted by aginis
    heavy objects fall faster than light ones because of wind resistance.
    that is to say to objects of the same form and cross section haver the same drag (force) the one with more mass will accelerate faster as it falls. however at some point they both reach the same terminal velocity, although the heavier one gets there first.
    not so if wind rain drops fall faster than anything else and they are lighter than most things
  13. 22 Sep '06 21:28
    Originally posted by shotokanguy
    A clarification... what I meant was that a) common sense doesn't always give us the right answer, and b) common sense isn't very relevant to chess. Common sense is based on the collected wisdom of life experiences, and chess skill is based on pattern recognition and calculation, among other things, which are quite specific to chess.

    I believe that Gal ...[text shortened]... ght objects fall at the same speed, though yes, wind resistance could be an additional factor.
    but common sense does apply to chess. for example if you had a mate in one that you saw and another move that gives up a piece for nothing and allows a defence for the mate at the same time common sense would tell you to play the mate in one.
  14. 22 Sep '06 21:52
    Chess is logical and the strongest move in chess will always be the most logical one.
  15. 22 Sep '06 22:01
    Originally posted by exigentsky
    Chess is logical and the strongest move in chess will always be the most logical one.
    well everyone is saying chess relies on logic but not common sense the two are connected so that is impossible. also maybe the author meant when he said that it is not built on it maybe it is built of it.