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  1. 04 Sep '10 12:15
    Hello folks.

    Can any of the current computer programs really help as far as post game analysis other than for tactics?

    I have Fritz 7 that I run my games thru.
    It's 'comment's are cute but not really instructive. It's great for showing if a tactical shot was missed but as far as middle game planning or endgame advice it's useless.

    I tend to prefer closed, slower, positional games hoping for some middle game advantage that I can win in the ending.

    So are any of the current programs (Rybka, Shredder, Fritz12 etc) capable of even approaching post-game analysis other than the tactical aspect and actually touch on mid-game and endgame strategy ? And provide any meaningful training 'comments'?

    thanks for any advice.
    chuck
  2. 04 Sep '10 12:24
    Originally posted by caa55
    Hello folks.

    Can any of the current computer programs really help as far as post game analysis other than for tactics?

    I have Fritz 7 that I run my games thru.
    It's 'comment's are cute but not really instructive. It's great for showing if a tactical shot was missed but as far as middle game planning or endgame advice it's useless.

    I tend to prefer cl ...[text shortened]... rategy ? And provide any meaningful training 'comments'?

    thanks for any advice.
    chuck
    Sure they can be a big help. I often run Chessmaster when playing rated games against opponents on RHP.

    I learn a lot by doing that.
  3. 04 Sep '10 12:35
    You mean after you play the game, cough, cough.

    Using the program during the games would be considered cheating, cough, cough.
  4. 04 Sep '10 12:44 / 2 edits
    I thought I made it clear that this is for POST GAME ANALYSIS and a TRAINING AID (cough, cough).

    If I wanted to cheat I'd purchase several multi-core computers and all the latest programs or play on ICCF where computers are allowed.

    I'm 54 yrs with nothing to prove either to myself or anyone else - I'll never be a master but I think goal of a Class A player is realistic. I posted the question trying to improve my game. If the question proves too difficult to answer or if it's constantly implied that it's for 'cheating' purposes I'll just delete it and figure the answer out myself.

    In addition, I just joined RedHotPawn a few minutes ago just to try out the forum and perhaps play a game or two. Honestly, at this point I must state I'm disappointed with the experience.

    Thank you and have a nice day.
    Chuck Allen
  5. 04 Sep '10 13:01
    i think if theyre good enough that gm's use them so oftwn to find different lines then yes theyre worth having and using. you can learn tons about openings and also use the database to study games in the lones that you use. yeah youll prob never play a game exactly as they go but learning the idea behind certain openings. you can learn which side is most often attacked on in this type of position, etc.

    as far as analysis...if it shows you something you wouldve never seen yourself isnt that enough whether tactical or not? just because youre a more positionalplayer doesnt mean you shouldnt also be tactical. i think any class A player is pretty knowledgeable on the dynamics of a positiion but its usually tactical moves tgat break through giving them the key advantage to get a win..not to say im an expert on this subject.. just some words fir thought. i asked myself this same questiin and just purchased rybka
  6. 04 Sep '10 13:04
    Originally posted by caa55
    Hello folks.

    Can any of the current computer programs really help as far as post game analysis other than for tactics?

    I have Fritz 7 that I run my games thru.
    It's 'comment's are cute but not really instructive. It's great for showing if a tactical shot was missed but as far as middle game planning or endgame advice it's useless.

    I tend to prefer cl ...[text shortened]... rategy ? And provide any meaningful training 'comments'?

    thanks for any advice.
    chuck
    Unfortunately, computer engines are really only useful for tactics. They're pretty much hopeless at strategy, planning and endgame play.

    Also they're far better at finding good moves in open positions than closed positions.

    If the pawns are blocked in the centre, both sides Kings are safe and there aren't any obvious tactics, engines will often flounder around,
    making all sorts of pointless moves, because they don't know what to do.

    I wouldn't bother asking an engine to give a verbal commentary.

    If they don't understand their own moves, they have even less chance understanding yours!
  7. 04 Sep '10 13:11
    Originally posted by caa55
    I thought I made it clear that this is for POST GAME ANALYSIS and a TRAINING AID (cough, cough).

    If I wanted to cheat I'd purchase several multi-core computers and all the latest programs or play on ICCF where computers are allowed.

    I'm 54 yrs with nothing to prove either to myself or anyone else - I'll never be a master but I think goal of a Class A pl ...[text shortened]... te I'm disappointed with the experience.

    Thank you and have a nice day.
    Chuck Allen
    Chuck, relax. It was a joke. In fact, the joke directed at myself (pretending to out myself for cheating).

    RHP is full of very strong players who regularly provide a wealth of knowledge and helpful insights.

    But we also have fun with each other and keep things light. You also have a nice day.

    Sean
  8. 04 Sep '10 13:15
    Originally posted by David Tebb
    Unfortunately, computer engines are really only useful for tactics. They're pretty much hopeless at strategy, planning and endgame play.

    Also they're far better at finding good moves in open positions than closed positions.

    If the pawns are blocked in the centre, both sides Kings are safe and there aren't any obvious tactics, engines will often fl ...[text shortened]...
    If they don't understand their own moves, they have even less chance understanding yours!
    I wouldn't think that would be true, at least for the strong programs. I doubt computers would be beating the best chess players in the world using tactics alone, even with opening databases programmed in. And isn't endgame play almost all about tactics?
  9. 04 Sep '10 13:24
    Originally posted by caa55
    Hello folks.

    Can any of the current computer programs really help as far as post game analysis other than for tactics?

    I have Fritz 7 that I run my games thru.
    It's 'comment's are cute but not really instructive. It's great for showing if a tactical shot was missed but as far as middle game planning or endgame advice it's useless.

    I tend to prefer cl ...[text shortened]... rategy ? And provide any meaningful training 'comments'?

    thanks for any advice.
    chuck
    Unlikely,in my opinion.Your preferene of closed positions makes it even more unlikely.

    toet.
  10. 04 Sep '10 13:33
    Thanks guys. I really do appreciate the helpful comments. Sorry if I came across too abrupt. It would be nice to have a Master training partner for the price of a PC program (comments and all) but I guess that's wishful thinking. I didn't know how much improvement had been made to the current stable of chess playing programs. I don't know if I'll upgrade my Fritz 7 or not, it's pretty good at tactics.

    I've been out of the chess playing mode for quite a few years and am trying to get back up to speed. Although with my abilities that probably wont take too long 🙂

    Good chess.
    chuck
  11. 04 Sep '10 14:41
    Lots of free chess puzzle sites if you want to help develop your eye.

    Chesstempo and Emrald.net come to mind.