Computer Training Method an Experiment

Hi guys.

I'd like you to take part in a training experiment.
Especially anyone graded under 1600.

I have set up a coaching club Bates Motel and have tried
various methods of giving lessons so they will stick.

My latest effort, which at first I thought was a bit silly
has been met with a good reception by all concerned.

This one is designed to get everything from a well annotated game.
Face to face I'd know if it was time to move on. Over the net I've no idea.

I've seen other annotated games in other columns and to get the full benefit
I believe you have to print it out and go through everything slowly over a board.

Chess players are lazy, there is no quick fix but this method has something
going for it and just may need fine tuning.

The mouse click quick read, mouse click, quick read may work for some
but it clearly is not working for the majority.

I think with this method you will be able to go to a full set.
re-create the whole game and recall each note without going back to the stem game.

So give it a go, you have nothing to lose and perhaps something to learn.

It will not take long, but please do the replay/recap method.
See if it works for you.

I'm determined to get my guys up to 1800 at least.
And I'm doubly determined to get chess and a computer working together.

I just need to find the best method of coaching not face to face.


If you see a flaw, or it did nothing for you or you don't like it,
tell me - be blunt but please be open-minded.

http://chessedinburgh.co.uk/chandlerarticle.php?ChandID=9

Post feedback here.

Thanks Lads.

Just three piece of Feedback I've had so far...

"That was awesome! I enjoyed the annotations and especially the repetition of the game at different stages.
It really helped me to begin to put together what was going on......
...... look forward to more lessons in a similar presentation. Cheers!"
...
"Brilliant analysis. Very instructional. Thanks for taking the time to do this for us.
I think I can play through the first 16 moves and understand and recall the reasoning.
......
"I'm supposed to be doing the teaching but I think I learned a lot from that game too.
Excellent set of annotations, if you haven't already played through it then go and do so now.
In fact play through it twice! I also think the repitition is a good idea.
Wait a minute - did I just say that Geoff has had a good idea? I need to go and lie down... "

That last one came from an FM I have recruited into the Bates Motel teaching team. (a wise guy).

Cheers

Liked the game. I was so impressed with how simple white's moves were that I had to try out this variation in some blitz. First game got me this win with no work at all:

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Hi guys.

I'd like you to take part in a training experiment.
Especially anyone graded under 1600.

I have set up a coaching club [b]Bates Motel and have tried
various methods of giving lessons so they will stick.

My latest effort, which at first I thought was a bit silly
has been met with a good reception by all concerned.

This one is d ...[text shortened]... n FM I have recruited into the Bates Motel teaching team. (a wise guy).

Cheers[/b]

Works for me,I was easily able to replay the recap points and then the whole game,including the blood, AND remember most of the notes.
Nice game too.Good,clean chess 🙂

I do wonder if it'll still stick tomorrow.And what about next week?Will keep you updated on that.If I can remember to go over it again,of course LOL!

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Hi guys.

I'd like you to take part in a training experiment.
Especially anyone graded under 1600.

I have set up a coaching club [b]Bates Motel and have tried
various methods of giving lessons so they will stick.

My latest effort, which at first I thought was a bit silly
has been met with a good reception by all concerned.

This one is d n FM I have recruited into the Bates Motel teaching team. (a wise guy).

Cheers[/b]

this was the first complete game I memorized, ever. that feels nice!

I think it's very a nice method to learn, but seems hard to utilize it for longer and complicated games, where a lot of sidelines have to be memorized.

anyway, thanks for the thread, I went by the book and did all 3 recaps, with good success I suppose. I enjoyed the annotations, the game and the challenge.

That is a very nice way of teaching Geoff. First of all, I truly believe that repetition is the key. It's not just about repetition though (as you pointed out). It's about understanding what is going on too. I read a lot of game collections. I constantly find myself going through the same game multiple times in a row. Remind me, and I will post two such examples from my recent game collection that I am going through (a book or Portisch's games). I know of two games that I played through at least 3 times, and I didn't stop until I understood them (as well I could).

I also believe in a real set and pieces. I can show you thousands of ideas that I have gotten from playing over games on my wood set. I seldom remember a game from chessgames.com. They are nice to look at but dissolve quickly. In fact, I often hand write game scores into books if I really like them. That way, I can give it the proper going over when I am offline.

That variation of the Caro-Kann is very instructive. That was a great game. I recall another game, explained very well, that taught me to play the varaition correctly as well. It was either a Fischer game or a Walter Browne game (maybe even Fischer-Browne lol). My mental database doesn't remember participants. ... It remembers moves and ideas. 🙂


1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Bd3 Nc6 5. c3 Nf6 6. Bf4 Bg4 7. Qb3 Qc8 8. Nd2 e6 9. Ngf3 Be7 10. O-O Bh5 11. Qc2 Bg6
can also be very instructive.

7. ... Qc8 has the idea of holding the b pawn without trading minor pieces. Why 10. ... Bh5 (instead of 0-0)? It is because black wants to oppose the light squared bishop as soon as possible. Castling would run right into Ne5. 11. ... Bg6 is another nice defense maneuver. It trades pieces, neutralises the bishop (and his path to h7), and threatens Nb4. One more idea (for black) is to neutralise the kingside attack and get in the minority attack (b5, b4, and bxc3). This gets black his play (and many weak queenside squares to work with). The variation gives equal chances, but the kingside attack doesn't take much to become dangerous.

As I said, this can be a very instructive variation.

* Note to readers: This was a column about learning ideas, not teaching a new opening variation. All the new Caro junkies will lash out 5. ... Qc7, and you can't play Bf4. In fact, I think this is in a new repertoire book for black. Just a word of caution and totally off the subject.

It is best to have someone go over your own personal games with you as well. Eekbot once asked me "Why do you take forever to castle in a lot of your games?" I didn't realise I was doing it, but I explained that with a closed center it is hard for my opponent to come up with a plan. By castling early, you give him a target. Attacking the king in his new nest, can easily turn into an entire middlegame plan. I would generally wait and see where the bulk of pieces were aimed and castle the other way. I think he kind of understood what I was talking about. It's not a great lesson, but it did give him something to think about. Stuff like this, you have to have explained (or possibly read). An engine will never break down not castling like that. (Of course it doesn't fear "attacks" to start with.

Keep up the good work Geoff. I think you are on to something good. Thanks to David Tebb too.

* Anyone interested in the Portisch games ???

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Chess players are lazy, there is no quick fix but this method has something going for it and just may need fine tuning.

I like this method. If it forces a student to actively think about what they're learning then that's a big plus. It's certainly better than just passively browsing games and expecting the ideas just to sink in. Well annotated games involving strong players can be very instructive.

Pretty great, the ideas behind the moves come through. I found it helpful to play on a real board the moves for white with a scribbled list of the black moves only - I bet if you had a board which would play the black moves only in response to the "correct" white move, and maybe could give hints based on the idea behind the move for those stuck, that would be the final more involved repetition necessary to drive it home.

Hi guys

Thanks so far for the feedback.

Amazing that reisigningsoon put the ideas into action the next game.

I was looking at the game thinking this is incredible - I know
the reason why he is making every one of those moves and every one
else who has read this thread will as well.

All from one game.

agree with diskamyl that more complicated games will require more work.

But for using 'Logical Chess' type games aimed at the class of player
we are coaching it seems to work (actully resigningsoon is proof it does)

Nobody is going to be safe playing the Caro Kahn v anybody who has
seen this thread!

My only concern is parrot fashion learning but if you implement these
ideas into other games from different openings, which I'm sure you
will then the effort of sitting there watching the build up to the climax
again and again will be worth it.

The computer wins this round. And here it shows it can teach
if the pupil is willing to put in a small amount of work.

Would you re-set the pieces after 10 moves and do it again and
again on move 16 and again and again. I would not and I would
not ask you too. But this way it takes seconds.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Would you re-set the pieces after 10 moves and do it again and
again on move 16 and again and again. I would not and I would
not ask you too. But this way it takes seconds.

Why not?I do it all the time when going over games.Either to figure out why the move I would've played is bad or to follow a variation that could've happened,then reset and play again from the start to where I left off.
How long does it take to reset the pieces?30 seconds?Not a big effort.

Maybe you are right - I've never really done this OTB -
it might be the way to go.

But then I remember how lazy chess players are.

No, they will never do it. The computer does this instantly.

Forgot to mention David Tebb is all this.
His notes make the whole thing work. Will use this as a benchmark
game to judge all other future efforts by.

My message box is filling up with players suggesting future games to use.

Thank you everyone who sent or advised a game to use.

I want to use games that were played by players on here.
I have a few candadates lined up.

I want to show my lads (and perhaps you other guys) that playing
these types of games are not the reserve of the super Masters.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
My message box is filling up with players suggesting future games to use.

Thank you everyone who sent or advised a game to use.

I want to use games that were played by players on here.
I have a few candadates lined up.

I want to show my lads (and perhaps you other guys) that playing
these types of games are not the reserve of the super Masters.

awesome game, very precise and clear analysis. i love games like that, beautiful clear chess, easy to follow and remember. the ideas are like hooks, almost like following a score of music. i simply scrolled down the screen hiding the next moves until i had made my choice and only then did i reveal the masters choice. more instruction please! 😀

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Hi guys.

I'd like you to take part in a training experiment.
Especially anyone graded under 1600.

I have set up a coaching club [b]Bates Motel and have tried
various methods of giving lessons so they will stick.

My latest effort, which at first I thought was a bit silly
has been met with a good reception by all concerned.

This one is d ...[text shortened]... n FM I have recruited into the Bates Motel teaching team. (a wise guy).

Cheers[/b]

I would love to check the whole thing out, however I tried again and again http://chessedinburgh.co.uk/chandlerarticle.php?ChandID=9 and I cannot spot the site 😳

Originally posted by black beetle
I would love to check the whole thing out, however I tried again and again http://chessedinburgh.co.uk/chandlerarticle.php?ChandID=9 and I cannot spot the site 😳

Black Beetle, just copy the link greenpawn provided

http://chessedinburgh.co.uk/chandlerarticle.php?ChandID=9

and then paste it into your address bar and click Go. It definitely works as I've just checked it : )

A well-played and well-annotated game by D.T.; with many diagrams, I think it's a good method (I have not used a real board for it). However now when trying to replay it, I cannot recall at what exact moment Black played the slightly unhandy move Na5... (because I only have clicked through it a few times, and did not make the moves myself)

In the last game, I cannot help but point out the possibility of 17. ... Kg8 18. Qh8+ Kxh8 19. Nf7+. I think showing such a "silly" tactic helps in broadening a lower-rated player's horizon and remove the fear of doing something "unusual". (hmm I cannot quite put it in words)



17. ... Kg8 18. Qh8+ Kxh8 19. Nf7+ Kg8 20. Nxd6