14 Jul 06
1 edit
Originally posted by CrawlIceI'm not sure.
Q: In OTB tournament chess, is it legal to count pieces on your fingers when you're working your way through an involved set of exchanges?
I know you are allowed to write a single move on the scoresheet and erase it and write another, ad infinitum, in the guise of writing your next move, which I think is an awful rule.
You could always do that if you're too embarrassed to count on your fingers.
14 Jul 06
1 edit
Originally posted by CrawlIceYou could always draw the pieces on sixteen of your digits, then cut them off as your opponent captures them.
Q: In OTB tournament chess, is it legal to count pieces on your fingers when you're working your way through an involved set of exchanges?
EDIT: That advice may only be good for one game, however.
14 Jul 06
2 edits
Originally posted by FreakyKBHI don't think it would work. After a certain amount of digits, it would become too difficult to move the pieces.
You could always draw the pieces on sixteen of your digits, then cut them off as your opponent captures them.
EDIT: That advice may only be good for one game, however.
Suppose you could use your mouth.
For future games, you could keep your digits at the side of the board, until the smell starts to put you off.
14 Jul 06
Originally posted by CrawlIceI think article 12.2 of the laws is the relevent one; from which I would say it is allowed. Hide your fingers under the table though, just in case.
Q: In OTB tournament chess, is it legal to count pieces on your fingers when you're working your way through an involved set of exchanges?
Article 12: The conduct of the players
12.2a. During play the players are forbidden to make use of any notes, sources of information, advice, or analyse on another chessboard.
12.2b.It is strictly forbidden to bring mobile phones or other electronic means of communication, not authorised by the arbiter, into the playing venue. If a player`s mobile phone rings in the playing venue during play, that player shall lose the game. The score of the opponent shall be determined by the arbiter
14 Jul 06
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesNo you can't.
I know you are allowed to write a single move on the scoresheet and erase it and write another, ad infinitum, in the guise of writing your next move
Article 8.1 of FIDE rules: "It is forbidden to write the moves in advance, unless the player is claiming a draw according to Article 9.2 or 9.3."
I don't see why there'd be a problem with counting on your fingers other than looking a bit silly!
14 Jul 06
1 edit
Originally posted by SchumiSchumi is right in regards to FIDE rules. However, CrawlIce's profile indicates he's in the USA. USCF Rule 15A does currently allow the move to be recorded before the move is made on the board. However, I seem to remember reading somewhere (sorry, can't remember the source) that the USCF is looking at the rule to decide whether it should be changed to agree with the FIDE rule. So it's possible that in the future USCF players will have to make the move before recording the move.
[b]No you can't.
Article 8.1 of FIDE rules: "It is forbidden to write the moves in advance, unless the player is claiming a draw according to Article 9.2 or 9.3."
However, if I noticed that my opponent was constantly recording a move, erasing the move, recording another move, ad nauseum, I would stop both clocks and summon the TD. I would make the case to the TD that the multiple erasures constitute analysis, which isn't allowed. I'm not sure how the TD would rule, but I would at least call my opponent on the matter. (The TD might also consider this practice to be annoying behavior.)
On the issue of counting on your fingers, although odd, I don't see anything wrong with it. Although I'm not a TD, I don't see how this could be considered prohibited analysis. The only potential problem I see is if you were to allow your opponent to see the counting fingers. He might complain to the TD that the counting is annoying him (USCF Rule 20G, annoying behavior prohibited). So to avoid this, I would make sure that my counting fingers were out of the line of sight of my opponent.
14 Jul 06
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Originally posted by Mad RookYes, I was referring to USCF rules.
Schumi is right in regards to FIDE rules. However, CrawlIce's profile indicates he's in the USA. USCF Rule 15A does currently allow the move to be recorded before the move is made on the board. However, I seem to remember reading somewhere (sorry, can't remember the source) that the USCF is looking at the rule to decide whether it should be changed to agre pponent on the matter. (The TD might also consider this practice to be annoying behavior.)
I have raised this issue with TDs during tournaments on more than one occassion. Each time I have been told that there is no limit to how many times my opponent may write and erase the moves he is considering to play next.
I hope that they do change this rule to FIDE's more sensible rule.
What's really terrible is that coaches teach their young players to abuse this loophole. They advise them to write their move before making it in case they are tipped off to a blunder by doing so, and then can change it. This is undeniably using the scoresheet as an analysis aid as it allows your to fix one ply as you analyze the second ply.
14 Jul 06
While I agree with Scribbles that I'd like to see the USCF Rule 15A changed to be consistent with the FIDE rule, if the TD ruled that my opponent could make an infinite number of erasures on the scoresheet prior to moving, I wouldn't be too upset about it. I would be consoled in knowing that my opponent is using an inefficient and time-consuming method to remember a single candidate move. If my opponent needs to use the scoresheet to remember a grand total of one move, I would almost be inclined to pity him more than anything else.
14 Jul 06
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesWe had a huge disscussion about the scoresheet at our chess club. Yes I find it annoying when people do it but really is it that much of an advantage?
Yes, I was referring to USCF rules.
I have raised this issue with TDs during tournaments on more than one occassion. Each time I have been told that there is no limit to how many times my opponent may write and erase the moves he is considering to play next.
I hope that they do change this rule to FIDE's more sensible rule.
What's really te ...[text shortened]... scoresheet as an analysis aid as it allows your to fix one ply as you analyze the second ply.
You write the move down on your scoresheet before playing it. Besides preventing you from moving instantly, how else does this help you? How do it help you see 1 ply ahead?
We have fun chess days at the club where touch move doesn't apply but clock move does. This one guy will move his piece, sit back and stare at the board. Then he'll put the piece back and make another move and repeat. Finally when he is satisfied he will press the clock. Now that helps you see 1 ply ahead and really really ____ people off. Imagine someone doing that to you. I hate it!
14 Jul 06
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Originally posted by Mad RookPeople get creative with it.
While I agree with Scribbles that I'd like to see the USCF Rule 15A changed to be consistent with the FIDE rule, if the TD ruled that my opponent could make an infinite number of erasures on the scoresheet prior to moving, I wouldn't be too upset about it. I would be consoled in knowing that my opponent is using an inefficient and time-consuming method to r ...[text shortened]... ber a grand total of one move, I would almost be inclined to pity him more than anything else.
For example, I've seen people write moves that aren't even legal in the current position, but rather would be found a few plies ahead along some forcing variation. The player writes the move as a way to keep track of that future stepping stone position to analyze from there.
It's also used not just to evaluate a current candidate move but to keep track of those candidates that you have eliminated. Suppose Nxf6 is your best candidate so far. You write it on the scoresheet, analyze it deeply, and find it is not good. You erase it, write your next candidate, and never have to worry about revisiting the Nxf6 line - your best candidate is always stored on your scoresheet, and you merely have to remember which ones you have erased.
(You are also allowed to cross out moves rather than erase them, so you don't even have to go so far as memorizing.)
14 Jul 06
Originally posted by RahimKBut that's just the point.
We have fun chess days at the club where touch move doesn't apply but clock move does. This one guy will move his piece, sit back and stare at the board. Then he'll put the piece back and make another move and repeat. Finally when he is satisfied he will press the clock. Now that helps you see 1 ply ahead and really really ____ people off. Imagine someone doing that to you. I hate it!
For anybody competent enough to play in tournaments, having the written move stored provides nearly the same advantage as moving the piece on the board, as both fix the next ply and shift the search to the second-next ply.