crafty

Hi. I've been trying to use crafty to analyse a couple of games (in Chesspad). I'm just using the crafty 23.0 files I already had from Babaschess. It all seems to be running ok, but the analysis is a bit hard to fathom. i.e. I have the following:

D6 0:00 0.16 1063 nodes 0/ns H:0% 0/46
[and then Crafty's preferred line.]

I gather D6 means the depth of the analysis. And the "/46" at the end means that white is assessed as being about 46% of a pawn better.

Anyone have any idea what all the rest means? What's the significance of the number before the oblique at the end? what's a node?

It's no big deal. I'm really just trying to save a few games in chesspad but i thought I'd give crafty a whirl while I was at it. Any help appreciated. I'm quite low tech. cheers.

Originally posted by scubily
Hi. I've been trying to use crafty to analyse a couple of games (in Chesspad). I'm just using the crafty 23.0 files I already had from Babaschess. It all seems to be running ok, but the analysis is a bit hard to fathom. i.e. I have the following:

D6 0:00 0.16 1063 nodes 0/ns H:0% 0/46
[and then Crafty's preferred line.]

I gather D6 means the dept rafty a whirl while I was at it. Any help appreciated. I'm quite low tech. cheers.

I'm not all that familiar with ChessPad, but I'll take a stab at it. I'm assuming that you're using ChessPad 2? (The ChessPad 1 output seems to be very different from your output.)

In general, the output seems to be a little fishy. Too many zeros. Almost like it's not really analyzing. (Maybe still in book, or it's not using the engine configuration info correctly.) Anyway, here's my guess at the meaning of the numbers:

D6 - Yep, the ply depth that the engine is currently analyzing. (A ply is a half-move. 6 plies would be 3 moves for each side.) It should reach ply 6 in almost no time (less than a second). So the depth should be much deeper if you let it analyze for any time.

0:00 - The minutes:seconds that the analysis has been running. This number shows that no time has elapsed. It looks suspect.

0.16 - The evaluation for the side to move, in pawn values. (Here it's 0.16 of a pawn.)

1063 nodes - The total number of nodes searched during the analysis. This number is very low, and it looks suspect. The engine should be hitting hundreds of thousands of nodes per second.

0/ns - The number of nodes per second searched during the analysis. Again, it should be searching hundreds of thousands of nodes per second.

H:0% - I'm not sure what this number is. My guess is that it's hash table usage info, but it seems to not be returning any hash table info at all. (It was also returning 0 for me when I tried it on my PC.)

0/46 - I think this is the position currently being searched. That is, it's currently searching the 0th position of 49 possible legal moves in the position. Again, this output looks suspicious. It should be some number other than zero, but less than or equal to 49. For example, 7/49, etc. (My ChessPad program also added the currently considered move just before the x/49. Hypothetical example, Nf3 7/49.) (Edit - I stand corrected, Stockfish added the "Nf3" move before the 7/49, but when I switched to Crafty, I noticed that Crafty does not add the Nf3 move. So this is consistent with your output.)

That's the best I can do with my limited knowledge of ChessPad. I hope it helps a bit.

One added thought - With all the zeros that your output produced, this makes me think that the engine isn't really analyzing. If you haven't done so, you'll have to set up an ini file for the Crafty engine, similar to the stock ini files in the "ChessPad2\common\engine info\" folder . Also, you might want to check that the Crafty config file (crafty.rc) is configured correctly. It should be in the same folder as the crafty executable.

Oops, I missed your "What's a node" question. I'm not an expert on these things, but I think a node is just a position in the search tree. For example, for the starting position at move 1 for White, there are 20 nodes (20 possible moves). As you go deeper into the search tree, the number of possible nodes (positions) grows exponentially.

Originally posted by scubily
Hi. I've been trying to use crafty to analyse a couple of games (in Chesspad). I'm just using the crafty 23.0 files I already had from Babaschess. It all seems to be running ok, but the analysis is a bit hard to fathom. i.e. I have the following:

D6 0:00 0.16 1063 nodes 0/ns H:0% 0/46
[and then Crafty's preferred line.]

I gather D6 means the dept ...[text shortened]... rafty a whirl while I was at it. Any help appreciated. I'm quite low tech. cheers.

As mad rook observed.That thing doesn't seem to be doing anything.

Did you put your crafty .exe file in the chesspad folder?

Nice free software btw!

ChessPad has always frustrated me a bit. It's touted by many users as easy to use, but it doesn't come with any engines pre-installed, and installing engines is not always easy or straightforward.

Here's a new program that I haven't seen mentioned much, but it's fairly easy to set up and use: "Scid vs. PC"

Yessir, an odd name. Here's the links:

Here's the Talkchess thread:
http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39982

Here's the program link:
http://scidvspc.sourceforge.net/

Several notes:

1) Scid vs. PC is a usability fork of the Scid program. That is, Scid vs. PC has most of the features of Scid, but it is much easier to use.

2) You must install Tcl/Tk before the Scid vs. PC program will work. I chose to use the Active State Tcl variant of the Tcl/Tk software. (More info about this in the Installation section of the PC vs. Scid site.)

3) Scid vs. PC is a standalone program, meaning that there isn't an installer package. You simply unzip the zipped package to anywhere you want and then double-click on the scid.exe file located in the bin folder.

4) I added a couple of engines to the Scid vs. PC program, and it wasn't that difficult. But the program does come with 3 engines pre-installed. (Scidlet, Phalanx XXII, and one of the Toga versions.)

Thanks guys. Much appreciated. It is chesspad 2.

The analysis numbers I posted were probably not very helpful. I just turned the engine on and then stopped it after a few seconds so I had something to copy down. If I let it run for a bit, I do get proper numbers, which will hopefully make more sense to me now.

Incidentally, I saw an earlier thread where choux was having problems loading crafty into Chesspad (mainly why I used the .exe file I already had from babaschess). I just followed the steps set out in the following link and it seemed fairly straightforward. Maybe I have an older version of windows? Hopefully I won't get slayed by a trojan.

http://wmlsoftware.blogspot.com/2009/08/using-crafty-in-chesspad-2.html

Originally posted by scubily
Thanks guys. Much appreciated. It is chesspad 2.

The analysis numbers I posted were probably not very helpful. I just turned the engine on and then stopped it after a few seconds so I had something to copy down. If I let it run for a bit, I do get proper numbers, which will hopefully make more sense to me now.

Incidentally, I saw an earlier thre ...[text shortened]... slayed by a trojan.

http://wmlsoftware.blogspot.com/2009/08/using-crafty-in-chesspad-2.html

So the engine IS working for you, excellent! And by golly, I had seen that blog entry at one time, and then I promptly forgot about it. 😞 So it seems you don't need to create an ini file after all. Eh, not the first time I've been wrong. 🙂

Yup, working a treat. Thanks again. All makes sense now.

Originally posted by Mad Rook
0.16 - The evaluation for the side to move, in pawn values. (Here it's 0.16 of a pawn.)

Not for the side to move, for white. Try moving 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 d5 3. exf exf. The score will remain roughly 3 (positive) after both white's and black's third move.
It's similar in Chesspad 1 (which I still prefer, because it's simpler - I'm old-fashioned that way), except that it'll be around 300 rather than 3. The only difference in that is that CP2 adds a decimal point - and a whole set of statistics I don't need.

Richard

Originally posted by Shallow Blue
Not for the side to move, for white. Try moving 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 d5 3. exf exf. The score will remain roughly 3 (positive) after both white's and black's third move.
It's similar in Chesspad 1 (which I still prefer, because it's simpler - I'm old-fashioned that way), except that it'll be around 300 rather than 3. The only difference in that is that CP2 adds a decimal point - and a whole set of statistics I don't need.

Richard

A momentary lack of thinking. 🙂 At the time I made that comment, I had the Stockfish 2.1.1 JA engine running, and it was reporting evaluations from the vantage of side to move. But you're correct, Crafty reports it from White's point of view.