Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Only Chess Forum

Only Chess Forum

  1. 08 Aug '08 04:42 / 1 edit
    Did the Soviet Dominance start with Alekhine or Botvinnik?

    I believe Alekhine. people categorize him as French, but he was really Russian. what's your opinion?
  2. 08 Aug '08 06:20
    Originally posted by EmLasker
    Did the Soviet Dominance start with Alekhine or Botvinnik?

    I believe Alekhine. people categorize him as French, but he was really Russian. what's your opinion?
    'Soviet' is no synonym for 'Russian'.I'm not so sure the Soviets cared much about chess in those early days.And if they did I doubt Alekhine had their support,certainly not after he didn't return to Russia after being allowed a visit to the west.
  3. Standard member caissad4
    Child of the Novelty
    08 Aug '08 07:40
    Originally posted by Katastroof
    'Soviet' is no synonym for 'Russian'.I'm not so sure the Soviets cared much about chess in those early days.And if they did I doubt Alekhine had their support,certainly not after he didn't return to Russia after being allowed a visit to the west.
    After the Russian Revolution Alekhine was expelled from Soviet Union. I have a copy of a BBC interview where he said just that. He was a citizen of France, therefore he is a Frenchman of Russian birth. He was never a Soviet citizen.
    Trivia Question:
    Who was the first American World Chess Champion?
    Hint: It was not Bobby.
  4. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Gonzalo de Córdoba
    08 Aug '08 08:16 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by caissad4
    After the Russian Revolution Alekhine was expelled from Soviet Union. I have a copy of a BBC interview where he said just that. He was a citizen of France, therefore he is a Frenchman of Russian birth. He was never a Soviet citizen.
    Trivia Question:
    Who was the first American World Chess Champion?
    Hint: It was not Bobby.
    Morphy

    or

    Capablanca

    depending on what you mean by American and by chess champion.

    EDIT - Wait, Wiki's giving Steinitz to the US as well as Austria-Hungary. It could be Steinitz. It all depends how you define the words in the question.
  5. 08 Aug '08 10:37 / 1 edit
    I do believe Steinitz was a citizen of the USA at the time he won the official WC title,yes.So it has to be him.

    I didn't know Alekhine was expelled from the soviet union.Is this certain?I thought the soviets claimed his families lands thereby Alekhine lost his wealth causing him to turn his back on them and leave to never return.
  6. 08 Aug '08 10:50
    What about pilsbury? Was he not earlier then all the others?
  7. 08 Aug '08 11:23 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Tyrannosauruschex
    What about pilsbury? Was he not earlier then all the others?
    When Steinitz won the WC title vs Zukertort Pillsbury was +-10 years old.And Pillsbury never won the WC title,you're probably thinking of the US championship title.
  8. 08 Aug '08 11:37
    Harry Pillsbury is also revered in the Checkers World.

    I read an article about him being in the top ten of checkers players.
    It mentioned in his bio that ...he was also a good chess player

    Apparently - not tried this - it is harder to play blindfold checkers
    than it is to play blindfold chess.
  9. 08 Aug '08 11:42
    That sounds about right - at least chess positions become unique quite early on in the same, I can imagine losing track of the pieces in draughts far more easily what with them being all the same.
  10. 08 Aug '08 14:23
    Originally posted by EmLasker
    Did the Soviet Dominance start with Alekhine or Botvinnik?

    I believe Alekhine. people categorize him as French, but he was really Russian. what's your opinion?
    Alekhine was allowed to leave Russia in the 1920s -- with his Swiss wife -- for a visit to the West. He never returned. After he won the world championship from Capablanca in 1927, I'm sure it was a source of consternation that the chess champion of the world had fled the Soviet Union. The Soviet chess establishment shouldered on without the champion and developed its own talent, including one promising candidate: Botvinnik. After he was properly seasoned and had tested his mettle against the best chess players of the West, including Flohr, Reshevsky and Fine, the Soviet authorities approached Alekhine for a title match against the Soviet champion, Botvinnik, to be played in Moscow. According to accounts, Alekhine was very excited at the prospect of returning to his home country and being feted by the Soviet authorities. Alas, it was not to be -- Alekhine died alone in his hotel room in Portugal in 1946.

    So in answer to your question, the era of Soviet dominance in chess properly began with Botvinnik. It was only in the 1950s that the Soviets rehabilitated Alehkhine and acknowledged his influence on Soviet chess players. In their book entitled "The Soviet School of Chess," Kotov and Yudovich, the pedigree of Soviet chess begins with Chigorin, then Alekhine and finally, Botvinnik.
  11. Standard member Chipotle
    Pawn Grubber
    09 Aug '08 01:37
    Originally posted by caissad4

    Trivia Question:
    Who was the first American World Chess Champion?
    Hint: It was not Bobby.
    Morphy, although since Steinitz in generally considered the first World Champion, Steinitz could be considered the first (naturalized). Lasker also lived in the US for a considerable amount of time, as did Capa.

    If you want to talk about any official chess WC, including correspondence chess champions, then Hans Berliner should be counted for winning the title in the 60's. #5 in the line after my man CJS Purdy. However, he was also naturalized to the US.

    Not that it makes much difference - the US is a nation of immigrants.
  12. Standard member caissad4
    Child of the Novelty
    09 Aug '08 05:36
    Originally posted by Katastroof
    I do believe Steinitz was a citizen of the USA at the time he won the official WC title,yes.So it has to be him.

    I didn't know Alekhine was expelled from the soviet union.Is this certain?I thought the soviets claimed his families lands thereby Alekhine lost his wealth causing him to turn his back on them and leave to never return.
    Correct, he became a US citizen shortly before losing the title to Lasker.
    In Alekhine's own words, he claims to have been expelled.
  13. 09 Aug '08 05:54
    Originally posted by Chipotle
    Not that it makes much difference - the US is a nation of immigrants.
    The native Americans must have been good chess players.

    The openings they played are still in use today..

    ...The King's Indian, The Queen's Indian...
  14. Standard member JonathanB of London
    Curb Your Enthusiasm
    09 Aug '08 09:01
    Originally posted by caissad4
    Alekhine's own words, he claims to have been expelled.
    Alekhine's words cannot always be relied on unfortunately.