Do you know how to analyse?

Originally posted by David Tebb
Kotov was wrong! In his book 'Think Like a Grandmaster' he gave 26.Ng4 as the solution, but that is a vastly inferior choice.

I fed the position to various engines and they all found NXf7! instantly (less than a second) and gave the same winning lines that were provided by Shinidoki.

Nxf7 is in fact the only correct solution and wins easily in eve ...[text shortened]... ed, the position was taken from move 25 of the game Riumin-Belavenets, URS Championship 1934)

Perhaps the most dramatic response to the question that opened the thread that I could have imagined. "yes I do, the author was wrong!!!"

Respect ! 🙂 🙂

Originally posted by David Tebb
Kotov was wrong! In his book 'Think Like a Grandmaster' he gave 26.Ng4 as the solution, but that is a vastly inferior choice.

I fed the position to various engines and they all found NXf7! instantly (less than a second) and gave the same winning lines that were provided by Shinidoki.

Nxf7 is in fact the only correct solution and wins easily in eve ...[text shortened]... ed, the position was taken from move 25 of the game Riumin-Belavenets, URS Championship 1934)

Thank you, I really appreciate your contribution.

My book is the modern algebraic edition and published in 2004, I blindly believed Kotov's answer, because there are some corrections already made in the book.

I just I felt like an idiot not to get this one for a few years but I am glad now that this question mark that I had cleared up. Now, I know for sure.

David Tebb, thanks again for sharing your opinion and apologies to Shinidoki.

If anybody is interested Kotov gives this interesting (and weird) line which never made sense to me for many years. He says in pg. 17: "Note in passing that White was wrong to reject 26. Ng4. After 26...Qh4 27.Nxh6+ Kf8 28. Qxh4 Nxh4 29.Nxf7 Kxf7 30. Bxe6+ Kf8 33. Rg4 Nxg2 34.Bxc8 Nxe1 35.Bxb7 White would win"

I really love this position. It arose from Flohr-Fine, Hastings 1935-36, after black's 23rd move.

"The tension has reached its peak and outcome can be resolved by the slightest inaccuracy" say Kotov bout the below position.



White to move.

Originally posted by kenan
I really love this position. It arose from Flohr-Fine, Hastings 1935-36, after black's 23rd move.

"The tension has reached its peak and outcome can be resolved by the slightest inaccuracy" say Kotov bout the below position.

[fen]r1r3k1/p4ppp/bpq1Nn2/4R3/1PBR4/2Q1PP2/6PP/6K1 w - - 0 1[/fen]

White to move.

The move that Jumps out at me is Ne8? -- with Bxf7+ is RxN



....hold up while I try to work out a line.



tada!

without a board:-

Nd8 Qc7 Bxf7+ Kh8 [Kf8? Ne6+] Qxe7 Rxe7 b5 Bb7 Nxb7 Rxb7 Bd5 Nxd5 Rexd5


and now I think White has won a pawn, and has a good postion (doubled rooks)


I should imagine that this variation is laughably inaccurate.

***Just checked with engine****

I feel like crying.

Originally posted by Shinidoki
***Just checked with engine****

I feel like crying.

Don't worry. Grandmaster Flohr went wrong in actual game by playing Nd8? and Fine refuted by playing Qc7 and "simply won the knight and the attack on g7 came to nothing" says Kotov (See http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1043757).

This is very subtle one (and thank God the solution is not analyzed by Kotov himself).

Kenan you are asking if people know how to analyse and then give a tactical puzzle with several interesting options. You are better off suited doing themed exercises and then as you go along and increase in strenght you can tackle this sort of problem. You just need to read your local chess magazine to see that OTB GMs do miss some tactics but also play deep sacs. The strenght of a player cannot be determined on tactics alone.

Originally posted by z00t
Kenan you are asking if people know how to analyse and then give a tactical puzzle with several interesting options. You are better off suited doing themed exercises and then as you go along and increase in strenght you can tackle this sort of problem. You just need to read your local chess magazine to see that OTB GMs do miss some tactics but also play deep sacs. The strenght of a player cannot be determined on tactics alone.

My friend, I'm not asking anything. If you own Kotov's "Think Like a Grandmaster" you'll see that the first chapter is called "Do you know how to analyse?"

I just selected two positions from them. These are not tactical puzzles. More like training puzzled. My idea was that let the people suggest moves and if someone finds the first right move, we move on to the second, third etc...

Anyway, it was a bad idea. I'll give the answer to this one and let the thread die.

"Look at the variations which arise after the winning pawn advance 24.b5!. The idea behind the move is not apparent immediately. It is to open the a3-f8 diagonal to attack the king. The win after the forced reply 24.Bxb5 25.Nxg7 is proved by the following variations:

1) 25...Kxg7 26.Rxg4+ when none of the various replies saves black:

1a) 26...Kf8 27. Qb4+.

1b) Kh6 27.Reg5! and black cannot meet the two threats of 28.Qe5 and 28.Qe1.

1c) 26...Kh8 27.Rxb5 Eg8 28. Rxg8+ Kxg8 29.Rg5+ Qh8! 30.Rf5 Kg7 g4 white must win, though not without technical difficulties.

1d) 26...Nxg4 27. Rg6+ Kf8 28.Qg7+ Ke7 29.Qxf7+Kd6 30.Qf4+ with a decisive attack.

2) 25...Bxc4 26. Nf5!. This strong move crfeated mating threats as well as the threat of family check on e7. Black has various defensive tries but they are all unsatisfactory:

2a) 26...Qc7 27. Rg4+ Kh8 28. Re8+.

2b) 26...Kh8 27.Rxc4 followed by Re8+.

2c) 26...Rc7 27.Rg4+ Kh8 28.Exc4 and Re8+

2d) 26...Qa4 (to prevent the queen check on the a3-f8 diagonal) 27. Re8+ Rxe8 28. Rg4+ Kf8 29.Qxf6 and after black has run out of checks he has no defence against Rg8+."

Originally posted by kenan
My friend, I'm not asking anything. If you own Kotov's "Think Like a Grandmaster" you'll see that the first chapter is called "Do you know how to analyse?"

I just selected two positions from them. These are not tactical puzzles.

Kotov wrote Think Like a Grandmaster, Play Like a Grandmaster, and Train Like a Grandmaster and I've quoted some stuff from one of them in my blog. You also need to ask yourself the question I asked above. Is tactical awareness all that it takes to be a strong player?

Dammit! I've had a trend of writing a long post and then accidentally deleting it somehow. I don't know how I keep doing that but it's REALLY irritating.

Black has more tempo but mostly in timid Pawn moves. White has an isolani. Material's even, White has more central space. That's about where I had gotten to though I had gone into much more detail.

Here's my analysis method (when I bother, which is never any more - note my rapid drop in rating recently):

Thread 37207

Here's a site that influenced me:

http://home.worldonline.dk/kfyhn/VikingChess/RussellBlack/Article1.htm

Originally posted by David Tebb
Kotov was wrong! In his book 'Think Like a Grandmaster' he gave 26.Ng4 as the solution, but that is a vastly inferior choice.

I fed the position to various engines and they all found NXf7! instantly (less than a second) and gave the same winning lines that were provided by Shinidoki.

Nxf7 is in fact the only correct solution and wins easily in eve ...[text shortened]... ed, the position was taken from move 25 of the game Riumin-Belavenets, URS Championship 1934)

Nxf7 could be right, but you should really give your engines some time, coz some times your engine may find a better move after a while

Originally posted by hbogyt
Nxf7 could be right, but you should really give your engines some time, coz some times your engine may find a better move after a while

see the line I gave....

its rather forcing and it wins --- EVEN IF NG5 was stronger, Kotlov should have still mentioned this line, seeing as its still good.

Originally posted by kenan
I really love this position. It arose from Flohr-Fine, Hastings 1935-36, after black's 23rd move.

"The tension has reached its peak and outcome can be resolved by the slightest inaccuracy" say Kotov bout the below position.

[fen]r1r3k1/p4ppp/bpq1Nn2/4R3/1PBR4/2Q1PP2/6PP/6K1 w - - 0 1[/fen]

White to move.

I remember setting this position up over the board when I was younger and trying to figure it out...I was way off from the given solution needless to say...I think it was the first time I saw that idea though....