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  1. 29 Aug '07 23:42 / 3 edits
    I certainly don't.

    Below looks winning for white. However, to find the right continuation is far from easy.

    Can you find a winning line which is 10 moves deep? If you do, you are certainly thinking like a grandmaster!

    White to move and win!?

  2. 30 Aug '07 01:35
    nice puzzle, it took me a while to find the first move.....




    dont wanna know solution ....look away now:.






    ---

    ---

    ---

    Nxf7 Bxg3 Nxh6+ gxh7 Bxe6+ Kf8 Bxh6+ Ke8 Bxc8+


    ^ though, I think black may have better defences....
  3. 30 Aug '07 05:57
    Originally posted by Shinidoki
    nice puzzle, it took me a while to find the first move.....




    dont wanna know solution ....look away now:.






    ---

    ---

    ---

    Nxf7 Bxg3 Nxh6+ gxh7 Bxe6+ Kf8 Bxh6+ Ke8 Bxc8+


    ^ though, I think black may have better defences....
    You have the right idea, but your line does not work.
  4. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    30 Aug '07 08:35
    Originally posted by kenan
    I certainly don't.

    Below looks winning for white. However, to find the right continuation is far from easy.

    Can you find a winning line which is 10 moves deep? If you do, you are certainly thinking like a grandmaster!

    White to move and win!?

    [fen]1brr2k1/1b3pp1/pp2pqnp/4N2Q/3P4/1B4R1/PP1B1PPP/4R1K1 w - - 0 1[/fen]
    Black has lots of weaknesses. Sacrifices on e6, f7 and h6 all come to mind.

    RXg6 looks like a possible start but it is only 1 of many promising moves. If I had this position as white here I would spend hours if not days thinking before deciding on the (wrong) move. OTB I would possibly go totally wrong.
  5. 30 Aug '07 08:50
    Originally posted by Dragon Fire
    Black has lots of weaknesses. Sacrifices on e6, f7 and h6 all come to mind.

    RXg6 looks like a possible start but it is only 1 of many promising moves. If I had this position as white here I would spend hours if not days thinking before deciding on the (wrong) move. OTB I would possibly go totally wrong.
    Excellent analysis!

    h6, f7 and finally e6 are the weaknesses white has to exploit. Rxg6 is not a candidate move though.

    This actually is taken from an OTB tournament (I took from Kotov's book).

    White thought about the right 'first move' and spent too much time on it. This resulted in time trouble and in time pressure he played the safe looking Bc3 and lost against the decisive Nf4 and after 1...Nf4 2.Qg4 h5 3.Qd1 h4 and white was forced to resign.

    This is a purely analytical example where the tactical climax is reached and the position calls for a decisive and forcing move.
  6. 30 Aug '07 16:06
    Originally posted by kenan
    You have the right idea, but your line does not work.
    Nxf7 Bxg3 Nxh6+ gxh7 Bxe6+ Kf8 Bxh6+ Ke8 Bxc8+


    it does work!

    1 Nxf7 ..??

    a) Qxf7 Bxe6
    b) Kxf7 Bxe6+ Kf8 Rxg6 Qxe6 (Qxd4 Qf5+)
    c) Kh7 Rxe6
    d) Kf8 Nxd8 Rxd8 Rxg6

    so...it would appear that black has no real alternative to Bxg3



    1. Nxf7 Bxg3 2. Nxh6+ ...??

    a) Kh8/Kh7 Ng4+
    b) Kf8 hxg3 Bd5 (gxh6 Bxh6+ Ke8 (Kh7/Kg8 Rxe6 OR Ke7 Bg5) Rxe6+ Qxe6 Bxe6) Bg5

    again, black can't do much better than gxh7....after that, pretty much everything is forced.
  7. 30 Aug '07 21:39 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by kenan
    I certainly don't.

    Below looks winning for white. However, to find the right continuation is far from easy.

    Can you find a winning line which is 10 moves deep? If you do, you are certainly thinking like a grandmaster!

    White to move and win!?

    [fen]1brr2k1/1b3pp1/pp2pqnp/4N2Q/3P4/1B4R1/PP1B1PPP/4R1K1 w - - 0 1[/fen]
    The weakness at f7 is glaring: I wouldn't even analyse just dive in cold turkey style.

    But I agree with Dragon Fire in a corr. game I would look a little deeper.
  8. 31 Aug '07 04:19
    Nd7?
  9. 31 Aug '07 04:25
    And give black a free knight? Absolutely not.

    If I found this my first reaction would be "Damn, f7 is protected by 1 piece and I have nearly everything pointing there. Let's get at it!"

    NxF7 to start.
  10. 31 Aug '07 04:58
    I know this one is real subtle. Nobody has posted any correct solution yet (according to Kotov's analysis in his book)

    I'll give you a big hint: The first move is not a sacrifice.
  11. 31 Aug '07 06:36 / 2 edits
    I'm probably way off...but here's what I got:

    1. Nxf7 Bxg3 2. Nxh6+ gxh6 3. Bxe6 Kf8 4. Bxh6+ Ke8 5. Bxc8+ Kf7 6. Be6+ Ke8 7. Bf5+ Kf7 8. Bxg6+ Kg8 9. Bf7+ Qxf7 10. Qg5+ Kh7 11. Re7
  12. 31 Aug '07 10:53
    Originally posted by kenan
    I know this one is real subtle. Nobody has posted any correct solution yet (according to Kotov's analysis in his book)

    I'll give you a big hint: The first move is not a sacrifice.
    lol not fair I remember this game...this move isn't natural when you say white to move and win..maybe you should just have asked what the best move would be lol.......
  13. 01 Sep '07 03:56
    Originally posted by Restless Soul
    lol not fair I remember this game...this move isn't natural when you say white to move and win..maybe you should just have asked what the best move would be lol.......
    Yes.

    This is not a tactics puzzle where you have to find mate in 4 or massive advantage.

    It is about middle game analysis. However, after Kotov's suggested analysis white would win.

    Where are all these strong players who can analyse? We can all learn from their technique of analysis.
  14. 01 Sep '07 12:07
    Originally posted by kenan
    Yes.

    This is not a tactics puzzle where you have to find mate in 4 or massive advantage.

    It is about middle game analysis. However, after Kotov's suggested analysis white would win.

    Where are all these strong players who can analyse? We can all learn from their technique of analysis.
    despite the fact Nxf7 is a perfectly good winning line?
  15. 01 Sep '07 13:35 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by kenan
    Yes.

    This is not a tactics puzzle where you have to find mate in 4 or massive advantage.

    It is about middle game analysis. However, after Kotov's suggested analysis white would win.

    Where are all these strong players who can analyse? We can all learn from their technique of analysis.
    Kotov was wrong! In his book 'Think Like a Grandmaster' he gave 26.Ng4 as the solution, but that is a vastly inferior choice.

    I fed the position to various engines and they all found NXf7! instantly (less than a second) and gave the same winning lines that were provided by Shinidoki.

    Nxf7 is in fact the only correct solution and wins easily in every variation.

    It's a shame that Kotov got off to such a bad start by giving shoddy analysis in his very first example, because the book as a whole is pretty good.


    (Btw, if anyone is interested, the position was taken from move 25 of the game Riumin-Belavenets, URS Championship 1934)