17 Oct 04
Originally posted by egouelloYep its fairly straight foward, since the computer plays very short term and plays like a donkey, anyone worth their chess salt will spot something dodgy not to far into the game. Check out the Analysis with Fritz thread and look at Fritz playing there. Things thats are a good give away, is never sacing, never missing a tactical shot, playing awful positional play, always being center greedy, basic lack of any idea where to put the pieces.....thats just fritz theres a lot of others but they all play like 2000+ idiots :-)
Hi,
Imagine you play on RHP against a player named Humancomp.
Is it possible to know if this player is a human or a machine just seeing his style of play?
Maybe you will wonder after a lot of games , but how ?
17 Oct 04
If it trashes you in 15 moves, it's either Fritz or Shredder. Ignore the previous response, the best programs now play a very "human-like" game and are 2700+ strength. The only way to tell if it's a program is if it's ungodly good and crushes you like a strong master+ player.
17 Oct 04
So if you are getting crushed on this site, for example, how does one know for certain that it's NOT a strong master player that just crushed you? I'm fairly new to this, and was wondering if they are not allowed to play on this site.
And if they are, and their play is as stong as a computer, or vice versa, then how do you know the diference, unless you are actually sitting in their home watching their every move?
Point is, you don't have any IDEA who you are playing against, except for thier word. And what is that worth on the internet of a million or more potential; opponents from all over the earth?
I'm just a tad confused, I guess.
17 Oct 04
Originally posted by kingisdeadSo you might as well just play your games and not worry about it, right?
So if you are getting crushed on this site, for example, how does one know for certain that it's NOT a strong master player that just crushed you? I'm fairly new to this, and was wondering if they are not allowed to play on this site.
And if they are, and their play is as stong as a computer, or vice versa, then how do you know the diference, unl ...[text shortened]... on or more potential; opponents from all over the earth?
I'm just a tad confused, I guess.
17 Oct 04
2 edits
Originally posted by Dodger11Go look at the game posted. Unless you want to post computer playing like human then dont ignore the previous responce.
If it trashes you in 15 moves, it's either Fritz or Shredder. Ignore the previous response, the best programs now play a very "human-like" game and are 2700+ strength. The only way to tell if it's a program is if it's ungodly good and crushes you like a strong master+ player.
Although i'll admit you have to understand how a master plays and how a computer makes a muppet move each turn to spot the difference. The closest engine to human play is probably Junior, but even that is clearly a computer.
Oh and 15 moves in........well its still on the opening book no doubt as could anyone who uses a database on this site.
17 Oct 04
Computers are giving Grandmasters new insight into positions they have played for centuries. Many computer programs these days can analyse games over 30 moves out...esp, when you give it the processing time. Put a computer on a clock however and you can start to see where things get dicey...Where a computer cuts corners in its depth of informationthats when it normally leads to its downfall. As far as style goes, style went out with Paul Morphy...of course Morphy lost a lot of games he could have won as well...so that is what style gets you.
18 Oct 04
Originally posted by kingisdeadHow many times do I have to say this?
So if you are getting crushed on this site, for example, how does one know for certain that it's NOT a strong master player that just crushed you? I'm fairly new to this, and was wondering if they are not allowed to play on this site.
And if they are, and their play is as stong as a computer, or vice versa, then how do you know the diference, unl ...[text shortened]... on or more potential; opponents from all over the earth?
I'm just a tad confused, I guess.
THERE ARE NO GM'S OR IM'S PRESENT, FROM OUR KNOWLEDGE, IN RHP! THEY ARE ALL "AMATEURS" LIKE THE REST OF US! IT'S NOT THAT GM'S AND IM'S ARE NOT ALLOWED HERE, IT'S JUST THAT NONE ARE PRESENT! With this in mind. . .
If you are playing an opponent of continious GM strenght, I wouldn't blame you a tad bit for being a tad sceptical. . . Yes, I know we are making circles here, and the flames will likely come, but it's time RHP players quit playing denial and fess up to this a tad bit, it is very confusing... Many say the extra time to think helps ppl play better, but keep in mind, it's the same advantage to the opponent, so it should cancel out...
18 Oct 04
Originally posted by mateuloseHow can you be sure of that? Did you poke everyone with a stick and ask for who they really are?
How many times do I have to say this?
THERE ARE NO GM'S OR IM'S PRESENT, FROM OUR KNOWLEDGE, IN RHP! THEY ARE ALL "AMATEURS" LIKE THE REST OF US! IT'S NOT THAT GM'S AND IM'S ARE NOT ALLOWED HERE, IT'S JUST THAT NONE ARE PRESENT! With this in mind. . .
If you are playing an opponent of continious GM strenght, I wouldn't blame you a tad bit fo ...[text shortened]... y better, but keep in mind, it's the same advantage to the opponent, so it should cancel out...
21 Oct 04
Originally posted by GrayeyesofsorrowNever in my life have i heard so much "tosh" spoken about chess engines.
Yep its fairly straight foward, since the computer plays very short term and plays like a donkey, anyone worth their chess salt will spot something dodgy not to far into the game. Check out the Analysis with Fritz thread and look at Fritz playing there. Things thats are a good give away, is never sacing, never missing a tactical shot, playing awfu ...[text shortened]... t the pieces.....thats just fritz theres a lot of others but they all play like 2000+ idiots :-)
Run a top GM game through fritz, infact try Karpov vs Kasparov WCm (game 16) Moscow 1985, this game is probably one of the best games of chess ever played, Karpov one of the best posistional players of all time vs Kasparov the young hungry wolf.
Then tell me what you find, without all the tosh
FGWE
22 Oct 04
Originally posted by forevergreenwithenvyIts amazing how much you seem to not know about chess. The engine wont pick long term moves because it cant caulate 10-20 moves deep for all the variations, where as a human can just look at it and go, queenside attack then move the pieces according to the plan. This is why engine users on this site games stand out a bit and engines in general play like gimps.
Never in my life have i heard so much "tosh" spoken about chess engines.
Run a top GM game through fritz, infact try Karpov vs Kasparov WCm (game 16) Moscow 1985, this game is probably one of the best games of chess ever played, Karpov one of the best posistional players of all time vs Kasparov the young hungry wolf.
Then tell me what you find, without all the tosh
FGWE
22 Oct 04
Originally posted by GrayeyesofsorrowI don't think this matters so much in the middle and end game. For the opening, engines use a book, so it doesn't really need the ability there either.
The engine wont pick long term moves because it cant caulate 10-20 moves deep for all the variations, where as a human can just look at it and go.