Does white have an slight advantage over black?

It's actually about:

White: 46%
Draw: 11%
Black: 43%

for the 1400+ database

I added all the % wins by White and divided by 20 then did the same for Black
then did the same for the draws.

20 is the number of different first moves that have been played in that DB.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
I added all the % wins by White and divided by 20 then did the same for Black
then did the same for the draws.

20 is the number of different first moves that have been played in that DB.

That's what I thought... You can't do that, Geoff. It has to be a weighted average. 🙂

(Lies, damn lies, and statistics)

Seems a logical way to do it.

I sat and done in my head (cept the diving by 20 bit then I used a calcualor)
I was quite pleased when everything equaled to 100.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Seems a logical way to do it.

I sat and done in my head (cept the diving by 20 bit then I used a calcualor)
I was quite pleased when everything equaled to 100.

you added it as if 1.a3 was played just as many times as 1.e4.

percentages always add up to 100% by definition. otherwise they're not 1/100ths.

Originally posted by wormwood
you added it as if 1.a3 was played just as many times as 1.e4.

percentages always add up to 100% by definition. otherwise they're not 1/100ths.

So what if 1.a3 is played less than 1.e4.

If you are saying weak players tilt the numbers because of their odd openings
then remember that they two have Black and will tilt them back.

You cannot apply your weighted thing (what ever that means) to this equation.
These are people you are talking about, human beings not apples.

I know a total % should = 100 it was how I know my running maths were correct.

I'll give Ruxton a call around about noon when he usually gets up he's one
of these doctors at maths. He knows about these things.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
So what if 1.a3 is played less than 1.e4.

If you are saying weak players tilt the numbers because of their odd openings
then remember that they two have Black and will tilt them back.

You cannot apply your weighted thing (what ever that means) to this equation.
These are people you are talking about, human beings not apples.

I know a total % s ...[text shortened]... noon when he usually gets up he's one
of these doctors at maths. He knows about these things.

Use the formula from Gatecrasher's thread, it's the accurate one.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Seems a logical way to do it.

I sat and done in my head (cept the diving by 20 bit then I used a calcualor)
I was quite pleased when everything equaled to 100.

If we use your non-weighted method on the RHP master database, for the 16 first moves we get:

White = 28.6%
Black = 36.9%
Draws = 34.4%

So the RHP masters must blunder more than the under 1900s!. 🙂

Originally posted by greenpawn34
You cannot apply your weighted thing (what ever that means) to this equation.
These are people you are talking about, human beings not apples.[/b]

No, we're actually talking about games. It being in percentages instead of games might be throwing you off. If the database had something like this

e4 -

white - 160,130 wins
draws - 34,811
black - 153,168 wins


Na3 -

white - 19 wins
draws - 4
black - 26 wins


Would that make more sense? It would be absurd to take the percentages of e4 and Na3 treated them equally. You have to add up all the wins for for each color and the draws and then divide by the total games.

For some reason I am convinced I am better playing black. I'd like to think it is becuase I am better at reacting than initiating, but its probably becuase I don't know any openings.

I find it interesting that in Comp chess- the advantage with White is even greater than at the Super GM Level.

The nagging advantage that White typically gets at the GM level is pretty hard to convert when you are 1600 🙂

Hi guys.

Of course you are both wrong.

Just taking the first 16 of a DB is pure folly and you are manipulating the figures.

Look at it this way.

If had a DB of all the games played on every site on the net and ask it
to find only mates in two moeves then it would come back with:

100% Black and 0% White. So you cannot chop the moves. That's cheating.

---------

All 20 legal moves are displayed with the % of wins, losses and draws.
To start favouring 1.e4 over 1.Na3 just because players have chosen that
as the first move the most times is misleading.

Following that path you will have to see all the 1...e5 replies and all the 1..e6
games and before you know where you are you have over I million
fraction of a % to work with.

Originally posted by SmittyTime
For some reason I am convinced I am better playing black. I'd like to think it is becuase I am better at reacting than initiating, but its probably becuase I don't know any openings.

All you have to do is look at your own stats. Your winning percentage is 63% as white and 54.4% as black.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Hi guys.

Of course you are both wrong.

Just taking the first 16 of a DB is pure folly and you are manipulating the figures.

Look at it this way.

If had a DB of all the games played on every site on the net and ask it
to find only mates in two moeves then it would come back with:

100% Black and 0% White. So you cannot chop the moves. That's cheating.

GP, I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that I was chopping the games off to the first 16 moves of the game. I was saying that in the master database, there were 16 different first moves by White.

Oh I see - you said 16 moves.

So yes according to that selective DB of master games Black does better.
I can show you other master DB that have White doing better.

However in this case we are talking about a closed DB here on good old RHP
so comparing the 1400 DB to a DB of master games is not really fair.