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  1. 20 Jul '10 13:27
    As the title says :.

    Tried to search for similar threads but couldn't find any.

    So, whats your opinion? Since technically white has an whole extra move, and logic tells me, if white keeps the initiative, he can make most with the extra move.
  2. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    20 Jul '10 13:28
    Statistically the answer is "yes", 55% to 45%, give or take a few percentage points.
  3. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    20 Jul '10 13:30
    naturally.


    still, it's just a move.
  4. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    20 Jul '10 13:31
    Originally posted by wormwood
    naturally.


    still, it's just a move.
    Yeah, it's actually the last move that wins the most...
  5. 20 Jul '10 14:32
    Originally posted by m00nshine
    As the title says :.

    Tried to search for similar threads but couldn't find any.

    So, whats your opinion? Since technically white has an whole extra move, and logic tells me, if white keeps the initiative, he can make most with the extra move.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-move_advantage_in_chess#Winning_percentages

    Adorján found that at ratings 2700 (elo) and above, White scored 55.7% overall. And at ratings below 2100, White scored 53.1% overall. And for rank beginners, there was almost no difference.

    So there is a slight positive correlation between players' rating and White's winning percentage.
  6. 20 Jul '10 15:11
    I guess it is black's job to equalize his position against white's 1st move advantage.

    Grit
  7. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    20 Jul '10 18:01
    Originally posted by Mad Rook
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-move_advantage_in_chess#Winning_percentages

    Adorján found that at ratings 2700 (elo) and above, White scored 55.7% overall. And at ratings below 2100, White scored 53.1% overall. And for rank beginners, there was almost no difference.

    So there is a slight positive correlation between players' rating and White's winning percentage.
    I wonder how that works out if you take out the players who seek to only draw as black. I'm guessing the culture of 'gm draws' skews the results, at least in some degree.

    a few years ago, there was a study showing aggressive players like topalov actually score slightly more points than the defensive players, even though they lose slightly more games. that might be enough to balance the statistics already.
  8. 20 Jul '10 18:17
    From the blurb of a gamescollection of Najdorf,king of the KID,by Minev.

    "Playing only the Black pieces in these 202 games, Najdorf nonetheless achieves an incredible record of 100 wins, 73 draws, and only 29 loses (67.6%!)."

    All those games are Kings Indian Defenses,a fierce,fighting defense.
    Gives you something to think about.

    toet.
  9. 20 Jul '10 19:17
    There's a famous series of books called "Black is OK!" which argues that... well... black is OK? I haven't read it and I'm not even sure if it's still in print, but I know the author argues that the difference in statistics is a kind of mass delusion. That if black players stuck with the fighting defenses such as the Sicilian, Gruenfeld, certain variations of the Ruy Lopez, etc. (not sure what else he mentions) the statistics would even out. Other defenses, such as the Caro-Kann and Queen's Indian, really give white a free hand in the opening. I'm not really in a position to form an opinion on the matter (seeing as I'm a patzer), but it's an interesting thought!
  10. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    20 Jul '10 20:09
    Originally posted by DivGradCurl
    There's a famous series of books called "Black is OK!" which argues that... well... black is OK? I haven't read it and I'm not even sure if it's still in print, but I know the author argues that the difference in statistics is a kind of mass delusion. That if black players stuck with the fighting defenses such as the Sicilian, Gruenfeld, certain variatio ...[text shortened]... rm an opinion on the matter (seeing as I'm a patzer), but it's an interesting thought!
    The author is GM Adorjan, and here is a link to a really neat essay by him on chessville.com:

    http://www.chessville.com/editorials/blackisok.htm

    Needless to say, he likes black!
  11. 20 Jul '10 22:05
    Originally posted by m00nshine
    As the title says :.

    Tried to search for similar threads but couldn't find any.

    So, whats your opinion? Since technically white has an whole extra move, and logic tells me, if white keeps the initiative, he can make most with the extra move.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-move_advantage_in_chess
  12. 20 Jul '10 22:24
    I think this question can only be answered if/when Chess is solved. But until then, statistics say that white has a slight advantage, and I'll accept that answer.
  13. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    20 Jul '10 22:37
    Originally posted by JS357
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-move_advantage_in_chess
    This article is awesome! Rec'd!

    I was especially interested to know that the winning statistics were pretty much the same between computers. It implies that either the stats are accurate, or the programming and opening books reflect their human origins so much that they carry the human bias right through the calculations.

    A great read.

    Paul
  14. 20 Jul '10 23:21
    Of the 576,549 games played on 1400 -1900 database.

    White = 43%
    Black = 48%
    Draws = 9%

    It does appear having the move with the White pieces when you are under 1900
    means you are going to blunder first and not recover from it.

    Thread 31062 is one of the many that have been trying
    to answer this question. Most are hidden within which is best opening move
    threads which appear from time to time.
  15. 20 Jul '10 23:48 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    Of the 576,549 games played on 1400 -1900 database.

    White = 43%
    Black = 48%
    Draws = 9%

    It does appear having the move with the White pieces when you are under 1900
    means you are going to blunder first and not recover from it.

    Thread 31062 is one of the many that have been trying
    to answer this question. Most are hidden within which is best opening move
    threads which appear from time to time.
    Hmm, those numbers look suspect. Did you just take a straight arithmetical average of the 20 first moves? I think if you take a weighted average factoring in the larger number of e4 and d4 games, the numbers will be much different.

    Edit - I'll grant you, it does look like White hasn't a clue about playing irregular openings.