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  1. 14 Jul '11 00:40 / 3 edits
    Neither do I! This is a skittles game I played the other night.

    My opponent resigned here... there isn't a forced win he was just frustrated that I didn't let him get his sicilian and his position is quite ugly.
  2. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    14 Jul '11 08:39
    Is blacks position that bad?
    Play for rooks on the b & g files.
    Weak a-pawn ... other than that defendable,
    If white O-O then ditto if O-O-O stay in centre.

    Its not that bad at my level .. (1600)
  3. 14 Jul '11 13:39
    yes I think it's resignable, white's knight is worth more than a rook, and black's bishop is worthless.
  4. 14 Jul '11 14:06
    Black is not to be envied but resignable?I don't think so.Not yet

    maxacre
    I don't see how white's knight is worth more than a rook.What's the rationale behind that?
  5. 14 Jul '11 14:11 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    Neither do I! This is a skittles game I played the other night.

    [pgn]1. e4 c5 2. Ng1f3 d6 3. Nb1c3 Nb8c6 4. Bf1b5 e5 5. d3 Ng8f6 6.Bg5 Qb6 7.Bxf6 gxf6 8.Nd5 Qa5 9.Nd2 Be7 10.Qf3 Qd8 11.Nc4 a6 12.Ncb6 Rb8 13.Nxc8 Rxc8 14.Bxc6 bxc6 15.Ne3[/pgn] My opponent resigned here... there isn't a forced win he was just frustrated that I didn't let him get his sicilian and his position is quite ugly.
    There's only one question here (in the title), and it's rhetorical.

    So...
    OK, thanks for sharing!
  6. 14 Jul '11 15:20
    Originally posted by torten
    Black is not to be envied but resignable?I don't think so.Not yet

    maxacre
    I don't see how white's knight is worth more than a rook.What's the rationale behind that?
    I don't think white's N is worth more than a R but I do like it better than black's B, especially in the current position. Black's B could help him later in supporting his weak pawn structure, but white's N has nice mobility and black's B doesn't currently have much scope.

    Unless I have the B pair, I generally like to have the N instead of the B. There are exceptions, of course.
  7. 14 Jul '11 15:21
    The position is strategically lost but not resignable. If it was just a skittles game I can understand not wanting to suffer. The problem is that black will never be able to achieve f6-f5 which is the break which will get his central pawns rolling and liberate his bishop. Instead white is going to anchor his knight to f5 and black will be tied down to the defense of the d6 pawn.

    The position is actually quite interesting because under slightly different circumstances black could easily be better. If white's pieces were undeveloped and black had the opportunity to play f6-f5 and open up the game he'd be fine. Instead they both restrain f5. Also if black had a knight on e7 instead of that lame bishop he might have chances.
  8. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    14 Jul '11 18:04
    I kinda like black for blitz. both rooks easy to activate, and maybe even stronger centre. the talk about black's position being resignable seems rubbish. white has no threats. what's the knight gonna do at the outpost, exchange itself off for the bishop?
  9. 14 Jul '11 19:40 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by torten
    Black is not to be envied but resignable?I don't think so.Not yet

    maxacre
    I don't see how white's knight is worth more than a rook.What's the rationale behind that?
    I wouldn't have resigned wither, but what I meant by that is that after white occupies the white square in front of the double pawns, it completely cramps the black position and the only way for black to get rid of it is by trading a rook for it, and he'll probably have to in my opinion.

    If I'm wrong, sorry for saying shenanigans, I only looked at it for 2 seconds.
  10. 14 Jul '11 19:55
    Originally posted by Maxacre42
    I wouldn't have resigned wither, but what I meant by that is that after white occupies the white square in front of the double pawns, it completely cramps the black position and the only way for black to get rid of it is by trading a rook for it, and he'll probably have to in my opinion.

    If I'm wrong, sorry for saying shenanigans, I only looked at it for 2 seconds.
    Was genuine curiosity how you reached that conclusion.I'm always interested to learn how others assess a position.

    I see this as white is better,maybe winning but there's work to be done.
    That said,I'd probably go down quickly as black.No good at handling this type of position.
  11. 14 Jul '11 21:42
    The point of the post is to play what you think is best. If you don't like the position after the book moves then just develop and play your own moves.
  12. 14 Jul '11 22:02 / 3 edits


    This is what I had in mind if he tried to control the only usefull file. His position is ugly... the files aren't usefull because I can give up a couple pawns and if my rooks become active on the open files that are created from losing those pawns he is toast.
  13. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    18 Jul '11 07:25
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    [pgn]1. e4 c5 2. Ng1f3 d6 3. Nb1c3 Nb8c6 4. Bf1b5 e5 5. d3 Ng8f6 6.Bg5 Qb6 7.Bxf6 gxf6 8.Nd5 Qa5 9.Nd2 Be7 10.Qf3 Qd8 11.Nc4 a6 12.Ncb6 Rb8 13.Nxc8 Rxc8 14.Bxc6 bxc6 15.Ne3 Rb8 16.0-0 Rxb2 17.Rfb1 Qb6 18.Qd1 0-0 19.Rxb2 Qxb2 20.Rb1 Qxa2 Rb7[/pgn]

    This is what I had in mind if he tried to control the only usefull file. His position is ugly... the files a ...[text shortened]... my rooks become active on the open files that are created from losing those pawns he is toast.
    I dont like 16. Rxb2
    Make white cwork to get his rooks out.
    16. a5 possibly
  14. 18 Jul '11 20:06
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I dont like 16. Rxb2
    Make white cwork to get his rooks out.
    16. a5 possibly
    yeah, that was the point of the line. To show that the open files aren't really worth anything to black.
  15. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    18 Jul '11 21:26
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    yeah, that was the point of the line. To show that the open files aren't really worth anything to black.
    thats not what I said - just dont let white get open files easily.

    It should cost white (suitable payment = improving black pawns)