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  1. 11 Jul '07 16:49
    Hey, guys! I was wondering what is your opinion on the Dutch Defence (1.d4 f5), regardless of whether you play this opening or not.
  2. 11 Jul '07 17:07
    Dutch is one of the sharpest replies to d4 if you play the Leningrad Dutch, a KID setup with the pawn already on f5.
    Or you can choose a more positional approach by playing the solid Stonewall Dutch.
    And there's also the Classical Dutch, which is somewhere between a Leningrad and a Stonewall in terms of aggressiveness.

    Overall it's a sound yet somewhat risky opening. A good choice if you need a win with black against 1. d4. Probably the biggest drawback (at least for me) is that white has some annoying anti-Dutch systems like 1. d4 f5 2. Bg5. So you might not get to play the main lines. Especially the Leningrad Dutch is heavy on theory.
  3. 11 Jul '07 17:22
    Originally posted by Kalhornov
    Dutch is one of the sharpest replies to d4 if you play the Leningrad Dutch, a KID setup with the pawn already on f5.
    Or you can choose a more positional approach by playing the solid Stonewall Dutch.
    And there's also the Classical Dutch, which is somewhere between a Leningrad and a Stonewall in terms of aggressiveness.

    Overall it's a sound yet somewha ...[text shortened]... o you might not get to play the main lines. Especially the Leningrad Dutch is heavy on theory.
    Yeah the 2.Bg5 Dutch is a pain & it's quite common.
    The response I've found best is to simply chase the B away.
    So:
    1.d4...f5
    2.Bg5...h6
    3.Bh4...g5
    4.Bg3

    Then you're looking to develop normally with Bg7, 0-0 & should be fine.
  4. 11 Jul '07 17:31
    Alekhine, Nimzovich, and Botvinnik were adherents of the Dutch. Two world champions and a close runner-up. The Dutch is in good company.
  5. Standard member Chufty Jones
    Chessicle's nemesis
    11 Jul '07 17:33
    I am a French player who also likes the Dutch. I mainly play the classical and I get around the anti dutch systems by playing 1.d4 e6
    That way I can transpose into a French.
  6. 11 Jul '07 17:35
    Originally posted by Chufty Jones
    I am a French player who also likes the Dutch. I mainly play the classical and I get around the anti dutch systems by playing 1.d4 e6
    That way I can transpose into a French.
    Sorry, but what is the classical dutch?
  7. 11 Jul '07 17:39
    Originally posted by Sam The Sham
    Alekhine, Nimzovich, and Botvinnik were adherents of the Dutch. Two world champions and a close runner-up. The Dutch is in good company.
    Not to mention Morphy, Steinitz & Chigorin if we're going way back.
  8. 11 Jul '07 17:43
    Originally posted by Squelchbelch
    Not to mention Morphy, Steinitz & Chigorin if we're going way back.
    No kiddin', Morphy liked the Dutch? Didn't know that. Strange, since he was so vehement in his dislike of the Sicilian Defense.
    No accounting for taste.
  9. 11 Jul '07 17:43
    Classical Dutch is a setup with pawns on f5, e6, d6, and Nf6, Be7.
    Similar to a Stonewall but without the gaping hole on e5.
  10. 11 Jul '07 17:52
    I always go for the Leningrad type setup.
    It's the sharpest line but almost guaranteed an interesting game.
    Here's the typical starting structure for black:

    White to play
  11. 11 Jul '07 19:23
    Originally posted by Squelchbelch
    Yeah the 2.Bg5 Dutch is a pain & it's quite common.
    The response I've found best is to simply chase the B away.
    So:
    1.d4...f5
    2.Bg5...h6
    3.Bh4...g5
    4.Bg3

    Then you're looking to develop normally with Bg7, 0-0 & should be fine.
    I don't like this line for Black at all, and it's worth pointing out that Black is probably lost after 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 h6 3.Bh4 g5 4.Bg3 f4? 5.e3! e.g. 5. ... h5 6.Be2! Nf6 7.exf4
  12. 11 Jul '07 20:08
    Originally posted by Fat Lady
    I don't like this line for Black at all, and it's worth pointing out that Black is probably lost after 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 h6 3.Bh4 g5 4.Bg3 f4? 5.e3! e.g. 5. ... h5 6.Be2! Nf6 7.exf4
    Yes.
    That's why I suggest 4...Nf6 or 4...Bg7 not 4...f4?
    Chase the B back to g3 whilst expanding on KS with tempo.
    Playing the Leningrad variation by default means that the rather iffy looking KS pawn structure isn't really an issue in an imbalancing defence.

    For instance:
    4...Bg7
    5.e3...Nf6
    6.Nc3...0-0
    7.Bd3...e6

  13. 11 Jul '07 20:23
    I think White can do better than that:

    1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 h6 3.Bh4 g5 4.Bg3 Bg7 5.e4 and if 5. ... f4 then 6.Bxf4 gxf4 7.Qh5+ Kf8 8.Qf5+ Ke8 9.Be2 and I think White gets the piece back with a much superior position.

    In my opinion Black's position after move 4 is overextended and a simple plan for White is to castle queenside and open up the kingside.
  14. 11 Jul '07 20:26 / 1 edit
    Yeah but I'm not suggesting ...f4
    fxe4 looks reasonable in your line.
  15. Standard member Dutch Defense
    Stealer of Souls
    11 Jul '07 20:36 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Squelchbelch
    Yeah the 2.Bg5 Dutch is a pain & it's quite common.
    The response I've found best is to simply chase the B away.
    So:
    1.d4...f5
    2.Bg5...h6
    3.Bh4...g5
    4.Bg3

    Then you're looking to develop normally with Bg7, 0-0 & should be fine.
    After 2.Bg5, this is what should happen:

    1.d4 f5
    2.Bg5 g6
    3.c4 Bg7
    4.Nc3 Nf6
    5.Nf3 0-0, which transposes into the Leningrad variation.