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  1. 03 May '07 16:11
    Hello all,

    I'm new here and not a club player or anything, just a moderately good chess player with little knowledge of theory but very good chess tactics that seem to keep me in most games.

    My question is about 1. d4, I've been using what you guys call the dutch defense (stonewall variation) and against most players it holds up good as they can't break through the wall of pawns, but against stronger players I seem to get destroyed...

    I always find myself on the defensive, fending off a kingside attack that comes as soon as I castle!! I can't seem to offer any good attacks of my own. So basically for this opening where are the attack routes ? I've heard Qe8 and then to h5 but I never seem to make anything out of that because white's bishops are eyeing h5 ??

    Also the queenside gets ignored completely, my pawns over there don't do anything and are hardly ever attacked, should I be making a queenside attack via a finnachetto bishop ?? I'm confused !!!

    Please help, I love this opening but need some attacking prospects, what are the key squares, I know e4, but by the time I can plant a
    knight there i'm already under fire from white's Qn, Kn, and bishops!!!!

    Also, bg5 is VERY annoying... I've heard people suggesting leningrad by g6, bg7 to combat this but I don't have knowledge of continuation and promptly get mated...

    Help please!!


    -Dicod3r
  2. 03 May '07 19:57 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by dicod3r
    ...Also, bg5 is VERY annoying...
    You have to bite the bullet & chase it away sooner or later with h6 & g5 as here- Game 3392207

    The Dutch does offer a lot of counter-play but it's usually very imbalanced with a strong KS at the cost of chances for white on the QS.
    Maybe it's not for you?

    I'm switching to the Modern Benoni for a while as I can do no better than 50/50 with the Dutch though I like the look of the basic position in the attacking Leningrad after:
    1.d4...f5
    2.c4...Nf6
    3.g3...g6
    4.Bg2...Bg7
    5.Nf3...0-0
    6.0-0...d6
    7.Nc3...Qe8

    A draw is unlikely!
  3. 03 May '07 22:35
    Of course it looks nice in that graphic, but in most games I play a bishop is sitting on g5 ! Also, white usually never attacks on the queenside, he goes straight for kingside.

    Tks for your response, any other suggestions ??

    PS
    Maybe it isn't for me, most of my opponents allow me to open with the French 1.e4 so I don't get much practice with it

    -cod3r
  4. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    03 May '07 22:38
    Originally posted by dicod3r
    Hello all,

    I'm new here and not a club player or anything, just a moderately good chess player with little knowledge of theory but very good chess tactics that seem to keep me in most games.

    My question is about 1. d4, I've been using what you guys call the dutch defense (stonewall variation) and against most players it holds up good as they can't brea ...[text shortened]... e knowledge of continuation and promptly get mated...

    Help please!!


    -Dicod3r
    In the Dutch Stonewall the stereotype is that white attacks on the queenside and black on the kingside. If you can post one of the games it might make it easier to find what's going wrong for you.
  5. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    03 May '07 22:44
    Originally posted by Squelchbelch
    You have to bite the bullet & chase it away sooner or later with h6 & g5 as here- Game 3392207
    I prefer to think of it as winning a tempo for the attack. leningrad is definitely not for the timid of heart, but when all goes well, the mating attacks are just crushing.
  6. 03 May '07 22:44 / 1 edit
    Ok, white plays 2.Bg5 & you decide to kick it away immediately...
    So a likely line:
    1.d4...f5
    2.Bg5...h6
    3.Bh4...g5
    4.Bg3...d6
    5.e3...Nf6
    6.Nc3...Bg7

    Is fine for black & again demonstrates the black expansion on the KS at the cost of QS space. The whole point of the Dutch is that it skews the board - there's no way for white to avoid a struggle & play quietly unless you play very poorly indeed as black & don't understand the Dutch at all.
  7. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    03 May '07 22:47 / 1 edit
    It's also possible to play against 2. Bg5 with this kind of set up: Game 2953488

    Edit: although I eventually played h6 it was because of a tactical opportunity rather than to chase away the bishop which was already off the board.
  8. 04 May '07 02:50 / 1 edit
    Is fine for black & again demonstrates the black expansion on the KS at the cost of QS space. The whole point of the Dutch is that it skews the board - there's no way for white to avoid a struggle & play quietly unless you play very poorly indeed as black & don't understand the Dutch at all.


    I have very good tactics and hardly play poor!! Maybe I'm doing something wrong that is inviting KS attack, I'll post a game when I can... how do you do that btw ??

    I'd really like to know the gameplan for an experienced dutch player, where do you attack??

    Tks for responses

    PS
    Also I've never recieved 2. bg5... it always comes after I have my knight on f3, I'm not sure whether to move or exchange, what goes the theory ??
  9. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    04 May '07 04:02 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by dicod3r
    Is fine for black & again demonstrates the black expansion on the KS at the cost of QS space. The whole point of the Dutch is that it skews the board - there's no way for white to avoid a struggle & play quietly unless you play very poorly indeed as black & don't understand the Dutch at all.


    I have very good tactics and hardly play poor!! M have my knight on f3, I'm not sure whether to move or exchange, what goes the theory ??
    2. Nc3 and then 3. Bg5 is a pain. You can't really avoid your pawns being made into a mess. One option is to get into the Stonewall via some move order where you delay f7-f5 until the sting's been taken out of the bishop move. eg. 1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3 e6 4. Nf3 f5 is fine.

    With posting games, you have only made two moves so there's no point in posting one from here yet, but basically you click the link entitled insert game under the post button and type the game number into the widget that appears. If you copy and paste a pgn of a game played elsewhere, or just type it in (in a pgn reader friendly way) then we can have a look.
  10. 04 May '07 04:09
    Just finished one game with a player rated much higher and I beat him using Leningrad, he came KS attack and I fended it off and blitzed him on the kingside (same side castle), very fun game. I think I'm getting the hang of it, you have to get the knight on e4, plain and simple... from there you can defend pretty easily... e6 is important too


    -cod3r
  11. 04 May '07 04:48
    Maybe you could post the actual line you're talking about, but from what I can understand
    1.d4...f5
    2.Nc3...Nf6
    3.Bg5
    then I'd definately suggest
    3...e6
    which defends with queen & opens the diagonal as well as not potentially getting doubled f-pawns & an ugly KS after 3...h6, 4.Bxf6