Hello folks ...
I've got a question ... I'm not a beginner and have actually played for a good few years but I still don't know how to name openings (apart from the queens gambit and the french opening) ... Someone lately mentioned the Dutch opening and I looked like a right idiot when not replying ...
Can anyone tell me what the dutch opening is ?
Thanks a lot
....Or LivingLegend! 🙂
Any further questions... ask Pyrrho 🙂
It's a good opening IHMO - it typically leads to highly positional game nice attacking potential for black. I've also heard that it's a good opening to use when playing against computers. Never played the Dutch against a computer though - at least knowingly! 🙂
-Jarno
Originally posted by PyrrhoPyrrho ... can you give me some more details of dutch (apart from d4, f5 ... obviously without giving away your secret plots :-)
....Or LivingLegend! 🙂
It's a good opening IHMO - it typically leads to highly positional game nice attacking potential for black. I've also heard that it's a good opening to use when playing against computers. Never played the Dutch against a computer though - at least knowingly! 🙂
-Jarno
thanks
Originally posted by Chess or whatI think you'll find this collection of games helpful:
Pyrrho ... can you give me some more details of dutch (apart from d4, f5 ... obviously without giving away your secret plots :-)
thanks
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chesscollection?cid=1000990
The games are all black victories [EDIT: almost all... one draw!], so you might get a bit polished picture of how well the Dutch works.... but the games do exhibit the black attacking ideas pretty well.
In the third game in the list, black plays the Dutch stonewall formation, which I too play a lot. (though not quite as well as Smyslov! 🙂 ).
The general idea is to prepare for a king side attack, which is executed either with pieces or by advancing kingside pawns supported by pieces.
The queen is often manouvered to the kingside via e8, and the lightsquare bishop (the "problem bishop" for black in the Dutch) usually either gets fianchettoed, or manouvered to the kingside as in the game Svetozar Gligoric vs Viswanathan Anand in the list.
Hope that gives you an idea of the system! 🙂
-Jarno
Originally posted by PyrrhoWhen I play the Stonewall variation, I always move my B to d6, I find Be7 to be too passive.
I think you'll find this collection of games helpful:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chesscollection?cid=1000990
The games are all black victories [EDIT: almost all... one draw!], so you might get a bit polished picture of how we ...[text shortened]... list.
Hope that gives you an idea of the system! 🙂
-Jarno
I haven't got good experiences with fianchetting the white B, so I usually try, like you said, to manouver it to kingside. I tend to play Nbd7 as well, I guess even more often than Bd7 followed by e8 and h5, because I don't like White's N on e5 and also because if play Ne4, I'd like to have the possibility to double my knights with playing Ndf6. 🙂
Jarno and I are both looking for some more info on the Staunton Gambit (1.d4 f5 2.e4), we'll let you know as we find something interesting. 😏
Olav
P.S. If you really want to get to know this opening, I would recommend the Dutch Defense training CD by Boris Schipkov, available at Chessbase.com
Wow ... Thank you all out there for the response ... I get an idea now and trekkie, thanks for the offer ...
It's not that I never played this opening (or let me say against it), it's just that I don't really know many names for openings ...
Pyrrho and Living Legend, I'll get a board next to my laptop and analyse your postings (and challenge the hell out of you after, :-)
Thanks again for all the posts ... You can tell that a lot of good people are playing here
So CHESS OR WHAT ??
Originally posted by dkappeI've just discussed this line at some length with Huntingbear in our game - and I do think that it's a very strong response to the Dutch for white; as you say, it leads into a game of a different nature altoghether from the likes of Stonewall.
How do you guys feel about 1. d4 f5 2. Bg5
The resulting mess is one of the reasons I stopped playing the dutch. No hiding out behind a nice stonewall. It's a bloodbath from the very beginning.
Haven't encountered it yet myself, but I do think that I'll need to do some more preparation for the eventuality...
-Jarno
Here's the idea I use when facing 2.Bg5,which is indeed a very strong line for white.1.d4,f5 2.Bg5,g6 3.Nc3,d5 4.e3,Nh6 5.Nf3,Nf7 6.Bf4,c6 7.Bd3,Bg7 8.Ne2,Nd7 9.c3,e5! and it's about equal.It's a bit of an offbeat plan,and it may look weird,but it works.I've had nice results with it in 'live chess',including 2 wins on ICC vs 2200's,and I'm only an 1800 there.
Just give it a go,you might like it.
Lord Lot.
Yeah, not a frequently played line. The exchanges in the center take a lot of air out of white's game, but he can still pressure on the k-side after castling long. I'd be tempted do something like in the following game (note the exchange sac on move 21 is practically forced):
[Event "?"]
[Site "Biel op"]
[Date "1993.??.??"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Kuzmin, Alexey"]
[Black "Glek, Igor V"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "2545"]
[ECO "A80l"]
1. d4 f5 2. Nc3 d5 3. Bg5 g6 4. e3 Nh6 5. Nf3 Nf7 6. Bf4 c6 7. Bd3 Bg7 8.
Ne2 Nd7 9. c3 e5 10. dxe5 Ndxe5 11. Nxe5 Nxe5 12. h4 O-O 13. Bxe5 Bxe5 14.
h5 g5 15. Qd2 h6 16. O-O-O Bg7 17. f4 Qf6 18. fxg5 hxg5 19. h6 Bxh6 20. g4
Qd6 21. gxf5 Rxf5 (Bxf5? 22. e4!) 22. Bxf5 Bxf5 23. Ng3 Qxg3 24. Rxh6 Re8 25. Re1 Be4 26.
Rf1 Rf8 27. Rxf8+ Kxf8 28. Rf6+ Kg7 29. Qf2 Qxf2 30. Rxf2 a5 31. Kd2 b5 32.
b4 a4 33. a3 Bg6 34. Ke2 Be4 35. Kf1 Bg6 36. Kg2 Be8 37. Rf5 Kg6 38. Rf8
Bf7 39. Rc8 Kf5 40. Rxc6 Ke4 41. Rb6 Kd3 42. Rxb5 Kxc3 43. Rc5+ Kb3 44. b5
Bg6 45. b6 Be4+ 46. Kg3
1-0
Originally posted by SirLoseALotThat looks very interesting indeed, thanks! Might have to try going for something like that in practice some time.
Here's the idea I use when facing 2.Bg5,which is indeed a very strong line for white.1.d4,f5 2.Bg5,g6 3.Nc3,d5 4.e3,Nh6 5.Nf3,Nf7 6.Bf4,c6 7.Bd3,Bg7 8.Ne2,Nd7 9.c3,e5! and it's about equal.It's a bit of an offbeat plan,and it may loo ...[text shortened]... an 1800 there.
Just give it a go,you might like it.
Lord Lot.
Though just before I read your post I found an interesting, very aggressive response to 2.Bg5; 2...c5!
I looked at it for a while, and my initial impression is that I LIKE IT! 😀 Though with the reservation that I've never actually played it yet... 🙂
-Jarno