You are somewhat right, but in my experience, there are only four that you meet with any frequency:
Exchange with Bc4
Exchange with Rf3 + Rb1
Nf3 and Bg5
Russian System
There are others. That said, there are just as many against the Dutch. In my personal opinion, the Dutch is not only harder to play, but also more theoretically suspect.
Originally posted by !~TONY~! You are somewhat right, but in my experience, there are only four that you meet with any frequency:
Exchange with Bc4
Exchange with Rf3 + Rb1
Nf3 and Bg5
Russian System
There are others. That said, there are just as many against the Dutch. In my personal opinion, the Dutch is not only harder to play, but also more theoretically suspect.
I disagree that there are just as many against the Dutch.
Well, maybe not, but it's certainly close. I play the Classical Dutch mostly, but I see:
2. g3
2. c4
2. Nf3
2. e4
2. Bg5
2. Nc3
about the same. The first three tend to tranpose to each other, but there certain options that don't involved g3 and Bg2 that could be listed separately. Against the Grunfeld, you could probably just learn the 4 I listed and be fine.
Originally posted by !~TONY~! Well, maybe not, but it's certainly close. I play the Classical Dutch mostly, but I see:
2. g3
2. c4
2. Nf3
2. e4
2. Bg5
2. Nc3
about the same. The first three tend to tranpose to each other, but there certain options that don't involved g3 and Bg2 that could be listed separately. Against the Grunfeld, you could probably just learn the 4 I listed and be fine.
As you have pointed out the first three tend to tranpose to each other. Without transposing there are few sidelines with no problem to learn them.
Other three (2.e4 2.Bg5 2.Nc3) are not with so many lines as any of these main Gruenfeld systems. For example one Gruenfeld exchange with Bc4 consist of more theory than all these 3 Dutch systems together.
i think with my bird opening as white(i never study it) i have extra time to study the black side of openings. tony, do you think you could show me some grunfeld in a game?
and is there any good starting grunfeld book out there that covers a lot and gets your feet wet for the many ideas?
Sure, send over a game. There are two books I'd recommend to someone starting out. There is a book by Jonathon Rowson that is old, but very good in explaining all the ideas and the themes in many popular Grunfeld systems. There is also "Play the Grunfeld" by Yelena Dembo which is a fairly new repertoire that will give you a repertoire in the Grunfeld. I'd recommend both, but if you have to choose only one, get the Dembo one since it's newer.
Personally, In OTB experience I have had good results with the grunfeld. It seems most white players play the main line with ease, but in the critical positions they have no idea what to play. In CC, however, it might be different because your opponent can use a book or database or something. Just my thoughts.
Originally posted by !~TONY~! Sure, send over a game. There are two books I'd recommend to someone starting out. There is a book by Jonathon Rowson that is old, but very good in explaining all the ideas and the themes in many popular Grunfeld systems. There is also "Play the Grunfeld" by Yelena Dembo which is a fairly new repertoire that will give you a repertoire in the Grunfeld. I'd recommend both, but if you have to choose only one, get the Dembo one since it's newer.
cool, i will send a game over. should i be black or you?
ill try to see if i can find both books used too 🙂
I like games with tension rather than open positions that are more tactical somewhat. Dutch is somewhat more positional and probably just as tactical compared to the grunfeld. I prefer less tactical games and more positional games so the grunfeld is not for me. I am very picky about the openings I play. If its not played at the higher levels, then I'm wasting my time with an opening that will limit my growth as a player as I become better. think of it as picking a dodge viper and racing and beating a lot of cars and then you can still put more money into it and then race faster opponents for bigger money. Then however you cant advance to the higher levels with formula one cars. You have to start from scratch again and buy a new car. Same thing goes with openings. Pick the best opening that you can or the most played openings at the moment for the best possibilities of winning.
Originally posted by kmac27 ...I am very picky about the openings I play. If its not played at the higher levels, then I'm wasting my time with an opening that will limit my growth as a player as I become better...
spend a day checking out the games of ivanchuk or nakamura. that should bury your misconception right off.
play what feels comfortable to you, not what feels comfortable to someone else.
exactly why I don't like grunfeld or dutch. ;-) I concede what wormwood says. Play what feels right. Play both and if you don't like either of them then find something else, but if something works then stick with it. I've played probably around 20-30 openings and I'm still finding out that there are openings that better my play now!
The highest rated player I've faced OTB plays the Dutch. With more than 25 hours of preparation for our match--four games if I score some points--I was able to get one draw and lost only 2 1/2 - 1/2. The draw was against the Dutch.
dutch or grunfeld?
13 Jan '09 20:40
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