Go back
Endgame Question - Both Bishops vs. Both Bishops

Endgame Question - Both Bishops vs. Both Bishops

Only Chess

R

Washington, D.C.

Joined
17 Dec 04
Moves
1025
Clock
18 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

In a recent correspondence game, one of the possible continuations was an endgame with both sides having pawns and both bishops. The only real imbalance was my (playing black) slightly more central king and the fact that my opponent had doubled f-pawns while my kingside pawn trio was intact. We both had a pair of connected pawns over on the queenside.

I have never seen this type of ending, and my question is twofold - one, with best play, can black hope to win this endgame, or is a draw the likely result? Two, what might best play look like? What are the two sides trying to accomplish?

Thanks for your help. If it's necessary, the exact position (which was never reached) is

White

King on g1
Pawns on a2, b2, f2, f3, h3
Bishops on g3, d1

Black

King on e7
Pawns on a7, b6, f7, g5, h7
Bishops on c6, g7

With black to play. Obviously black can grab an extra pawn here with Bxb2 or Bxf3, but after that I feel I am just stumbling around in the dark.

Thanks in advance for any light anyone can shed on this position.

RaulGroom

L

Joined
13 Oct 04
Moves
7902
Clock
18 Jan 05
1 edit
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by RaulGroom
In a recent correspondence game, one of the possible continuations was an endgame with both sides having pawns and both bishops. The only real imbalance was my (playing black) slightly more central king and the fact that my opponent had ...[text shortened]... vance for any light anyone can shed on this position.

RaulGroom
If I had black in this possition then I would definatly not accept a draw. Black has a more active king, better pawn structure, better light squared bishop. So black has everything he could wish for!
If you look at it purely theoretical then black is won. But if you really want to know if it is a draw or a win for black then you shoud have it analysed by fritz.

S
Shut Gorohoviy!

Joined
19 May 03
Moves
14164
Clock
18 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

That's a black win all right(I think).Just grab white's b-pawn,not the f-pawn,that one's defended by the bishop on d1,but even if it was undefended,I'd still take the b-pawn.It may be a long and difficult endgame,but black ought to win it,IMO.

C

the Netherlands

Joined
10 Jul 04
Moves
1396
Clock
18 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Looks like a black win indeed.

After grabbing at b2 you have a pawn majority on the queenside: you should be able to create a passed pawn in the (very) near future there. Without help of his king, white can't really stop your pawns from advancing. (And note that white will have quite some trouble moving his king to the queenside.)

You're not limited to advancing your pawns only though: white has several weak pawns you can put pressure on, especially pawn a2. If white advances that pawn, it will be easier for you to create a passed pawn and if he defends it, he will either restrict one of his bishops in movement or allow you to cut off his king (putting a bishop on the a6-f1 diagonal) or allow you to exchange white-squared bishops, after which your king is safe to roam the board (white stopping your passed pawn on the queen side, while you're king's grabbing the weak pawns on the kingside for example).

R

Washington, D.C.

Joined
17 Dec 04
Moves
1025
Clock
18 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Indeed, Bxf3 is a blunder. Silly. Anyway, thanks for the help. I am only just getting a grasp of basic endings and I appreciate the help of more experienced players on the more obscure ones.

m
Look, it's a title!

Run, it's offensive!

Joined
26 Aug 04
Moves
3708
Clock
18 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

If both sides have two bishops and he has doubled pawns, and none of your pawns are doubled, just use both bishops to simultaneously attack both doubled pawns, he can't hang on forever, this is common theory and many GM have gone into such endgames knowing this to try and play for a win.

L

Joined
13 Oct 04
Moves
7902
Clock
18 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by RaulGroom
Indeed, Bxf3 is a blunder. Silly. Anyway, thanks for the help. I am only just getting a grasp of basic endings and I appreciate the help of more experienced players on the more obscure ones.
So was it black to play?

M

Joined
27 Dec 04
Moves
1009
Clock
21 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
So was it black to play?
As said before:
Bxb2 - building a passed pawn on the queenside - maybe trading bishops and going into a won pawn endgame.

However - after Bxb2 black has nothing to fear and should be able to play for a win.

All in all a dream position :-)

Take care,
Mordred

L

Joined
13 Oct 04
Moves
7902
Clock
21 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by Mordred
As said before:
Bxb2 - building a passed pawn on the queenside - maybe trading bishops and going into a won pawn endgame.

However - after Bxb2 black has nothing to fear and should be able to play for a win.

All in all a dream position :-)

Take care,
Mordred
Sure but what if its white's turn to play...I kind of assumed that.

M

Joined
27 Dec 04
Moves
1009
Clock
21 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
Sure but what if its white's turn to play...I kind of assumed that.
White should try
- to get rid of the doubled pawn and
- activate the king to the center / queenside

When black is going to trade bishops, white has to make sure that the promotion square of the passed pawn is NOT on the same color as the remaining bishop.

Anyway - this is hard to hold to a draw :-(

Take care,
Mordred

Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.