Originally posted by BigDoggProblem An endgame tablebase contains exhaustive, computer-generated analysis of positions. It's actually worse than just switching on an engine, because it will generate guaranteed correct moves no matter what your opponent plays.
The difference between a tablebase and a book is that you must understand the book to use its knowledge, whereas with a tableb ...[text shortened]... e, you go completely on autopilot and just play every move it says without any thinking at all.
and endgame tablebase can teach you about the game of chess by allowing you to examine it's follow up moves, much like a databse or an opening book would. It is NOT like being on autopilot, because you can choose from a number of different moves and positions, also very much like a databse and an opening book.
And many databases are fine tuned, which allows near perfect play anyway.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem Use of tablebases is, or ought to be, grounds for a 3(b) ban. RHP should clearly indicate in the ToS that tablebases aren't allowed.
Yes perhaps, but until they do I am using an egtb, because I have allocated a way to view them without using any type of chess engine, chess program or software, other then a strict GUI which solely presents the moves and options available.
Originally posted by LanndonKane and endgame tablebase can teach you about the game of chess by allowing you to examine it's follow up moves, much like a databse or an opening book would. It is NOT like being on autopilot, because you can choose from a number of different moves and positions, also very much like a databse and an opening book.
And many databases are fine tuned, which allows near perfect play anyway.
It's exactly like being on autopilot. The tablebase tells you "play these moves for a guaranteed draw or win". You don't have to think about them at all (unless you just feel like it). I'm sure that letting Fritz play my moves for me would also be educational, but that's not why it's not allowed, now is it?
The difference between tablebases and other databases is that tablebases guarantee a result. An opening database does not. The best you get out of most opening books is a slight advantage. If the opening line offered anything more, it wouldn't be 'book', because the other side would play something different.
Furthermore, when you get out of the opening, you're completely on your own. If you play the opening moves by rote without understanding them, you'll flounder in the middlegame. Playing book lines by rote works against you.
Originally posted by LanndonKane Yes perhaps, but until they do I am using an egtb, because I have allocated a way to view them without using any type of chess engine, chess program or software, other then a strict GUI which solely presents the moves and options available.
Use of an endgame tablebase here is disallowed; this has been discussed in numerous threads by members of the Game Mod team. If you use an endgame tablebase, you are cheating. They are not databases, but computer generated solutions to every possible position involving 5 or less pieces (maybe 6 now).
If your games are examined and it is determined that you used an endgame tablebase, you will be banned.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem It's exactly like being on autopilot. The tablebase tells you "play these moves for a guaranteed draw or win". You don't have to think about them at all (unless you just feel like it). I'm sure that letting Fritz play my moves for me would also be educational, but that's not why it's not allowed, now is it?
The difference between tablebases and oth 'll flounder in the middlegame. Playing book lines by rote works against you.
Yes of course there is always that, but tablebases dont take into account certain rules, like the 50 mve rule. So even though they are accurate 95& percent of the time, they are still a databse. Plus, Fritz also gives you an anlaysis, which of course is using an engine, which of course is cheating. My method on the other hand, doesn't give you any in-game status whatsoever.
Furthermore, egtb's are good only for 3-4-5-6 pieces. After you get to one or two, you are on your own.
The point of them is to give you an advantage while you have it, much like an opening book.
Originally posted by LanndonKane Yes perhaps, but until they do I am using an egtb, ..
then you'll be swiftly removed from the site. it has been said again and again that tablebases are not allowed. it should be obvious anyway, as they are computer generated.
Originally posted by wormwood then you'll be swiftly removed from the site. it has been said again and again that tablebases are not allowed. it should be obvious anyway, as they are computer generated.
Who is saying the aren't allowed? the site admins or the users? Can I go into walmart and say "every sporting good is now half off."? Will that make it true?
I would like to hear from some admins or see it in official writing.
Just a matter of time before one of them comes along, anyway...
Originally posted by wormwood then you'll be swiftly removed from the site. it has been said again and again that tablebases are not allowed. it should be obvious anyway, as they are computer generated.
Yes they are computer generated, but nowhere does it say "computer generated databases arent allowed". I could use a general database from engine-engine games, and no one would complain about that.
I guess what I REALLY want is some clarification on the terms of use, as they are very generally written.
Originally posted by LanndonKane Yes they are computer generated, but nowhere does it say "computer generated databases arent allowed". I could use a general database from engine-engine games, and no one would complain about that.
I guess what I REALLY want is some clarification on the terms of use, as they are very generally written.
Open your eyes an listen.. We have discussed this before! This isn't the first time.
And if you want to be that picky then look at the difference:
Originally posted by RahimK Open your eyes an listen.. We have discussed this before! This isn't the first time.
And if you want to be that picky then look at the difference:
DATABASES and TABLEBASES
Get it? They are 2 different things.
Ok i'm getting of tired of this. Here is what I shall do
MY REGISTRATION OBLIGATIONS:
In consideration of my use of the Service, I represent that I am of legal age to form a binding contract and am not a person barred from receiving services under the laws of the United States or other applicable jurisdiction. I also agree to :
(a) I will not create more than one account.
(b) I will not use chess engines, chess software, chess computers or consult any third party to assist you in any game. Chess books and databases will be consulted during play
(c) I will not threaten or harass other users of this Service.
18 Aug '06 21:21
Endgame tablebase legality
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