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  1. Standard member bannedplayer306509
    Best Loser
    15 Oct '07 03:10 / 1 edit
    Is it against the rules to play an unrated game against someone, knowing that they will use an engine?

    I just challenged someone who called my game against crafty (in another thread) a hoax.

    Just wanted to make sure it wasn't against the rules... didn't want to get him in trouble .

    edit - to make it more clear.. i asked him to use an engine against me in a CC game. I know I don't really have to prove anything to anyone but I think it would be fun anyways... just wanted to make sure this is all above board.
  2. 15 Oct '07 03:27
    I don't see the harm as long as it is unrated.

    You might want to send feedback just to make sure.

    The only thing I could see it having an effect on is if your opponent for some reason is reported for engine use for other games and he isn't, this could skew those engine match stats.
  3. 15 Oct '07 03:35 / 1 edit
    While it may be a reasonable exception, it is certainly against the letter of the terms of service as currently stated. The ToS just says that you can't use an engine, not that you can't use an engine unless the game is unrated.

    By the way--and sorry to drag the other thread into this one--but if I did play against you with an engine, what would it prove? Say you lose. Are we going to keep playing until you lose 10 times in a row, or wait until you get a lucky draw in the 20th game, or what?

    I suggest if you want to play against an engine in a way that can't be questioned, play the game somewhere like ICC (maybe even FICS) where everyone can see the strength of what you're playing against.
  4. 15 Oct '07 03:39 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by incandenza
    While it may be a reasonable exception, it is certainly against the letter of the terms of service as currently stated. The ToS just says that you can't use an engine, not that you can't use an engine unless the game is unrated.
    I think that "unless both players agree to the use of an engine/s in an unrated game " should be added to that rule.
  5. 15 Oct '07 03:41
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    I think that "unless both player agree to the use of an engine/s" should be added to that rule.
    That's a possibility, but it could get a bit tricky. You'd really need to have some kind of flag on the game that said that engines were permitted--otherwise you can wind up with one guy claiming after the fact that he didn't know engines were going to be used. And that means adding code to the site to help support engine use, which I doubt is a direction the admins want to go.
  6. 15 Oct '07 03:44 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by incandenza
    That's a possibility, but it could get a bit tricky. You'd really need to have some kind of flag on the game that said that engines were permitted--otherwise you can wind up with one guy claiming after the fact that he didn't know engines were going to be used. And that means adding code to the site to help support engine use, which I doubt is a direction the admins want to go.
    Aren't all messages logged? If this is true the person being accused would have an easy time defending himself.
  7. 15 Oct '07 03:47 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    Aren't all messages logged? If this is true the person being accused would have an easy time defending himself.
    Hmm, I guess so. But this puts a burden on the admins--now they have to go through old message logs and make a judgment call about what was said (maybe one guy claims, "I thought he was joking"/"it was vague"/"I thought he meant a different game"/etc.)
  8. 15 Oct '07 03:56
    You know, maybe RHP needs a separate category for Advanced Chess where players can use any means to find the best move.
  9. 15 Oct '07 04:02
    Originally posted by exigentsky
    You know, maybe RHP needs a separate category for Advanced Chess where players can use any means to find the best move.
    Now thats a swell Idea! [no sarcasm]
  10. 15 Oct '07 07:35
    Originally posted by ih8sens
    Is it against the rules to play an unrated game against someone, knowing that they will use an engine?

    I just challenged someone who called my game against crafty (in another thread) a hoax.

    Just wanted to make sure it wasn't against the rules... didn't want to get him in trouble .

    edit - to make it more clear.. i asked him to use an engine ag ...[text shortened]... yone but I think it would be fun anyways... just wanted to make sure this is all above board.
    It could be a trap - inviting you to use an engine then reporting you for engine use and getting you banned!
  11. 15 Oct '07 08:07
    This constant testing of the rules and searching for an acceptable way of breaking them is putting these rules on a par with a religious or moral debate:

    Is it OK to steal to prevent someone from dieing?

    Would it be a sin if a man who believed his wife to be dead slept with another woman even though his wife was alive?

    Is it OK to torture someone if you know they have placed a bomb somewhere but you don't know where?

    Is it OK for someone (where it's forbidden by their religion) to eat pork if it is the only food available and they are going to starve?

    Is it cheating to use an engine when you have a skull against someone and you use the engine to test if the game is winning for you...and if it isn't you don't take the skull?

    And as such should they perhaps be in the spiritually forum?
  12. Standard member Phlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    15 Oct '07 13:40
    I was very surprised by Russ to get Feedback saying NO ENGINE USE AT ALL EVER IN RHP GAMES RATED OR UNRATED!

    Exchange email address and treat it like an email game.

    Russ wants NO ENGINE USE... I never saw the harm in unrated, but was WRONG!

    P-
  13. Standard member bannedplayer306509
    Best Loser
    15 Oct '07 17:26
    Originally posted by Phlabibit
    I was very surprised by Russ to get Feedback saying NO ENGINE USE AT ALL EVER IN RHP GAMES RATED OR UNRATED!

    Exchange email address and treat it like an email game.

    Russ wants NO ENGINE USE... I never saw the harm in unrated, but was WRONG!

    P-
    Okay that's all i wanted to know, thanks
  14. 15 Oct '07 17:57
    Originally posted by Mahout
    This constant testing of the rules and searching for an acceptable way of breaking them is putting these rules on a par with a religious or moral debate:

    Is it OK to steal to prevent someone from dieing?

    Would it be a sin if a man who believed his wife to be dead slept with another woman even though his wife was alive?

    Is it OK to torture someone if ...[text shortened]... 't you don't take the skull?

    And as such should they perhaps be in the spiritually forum?
    Yes, No, Yes, Yes, Definite yes, No.
  15. 16 Oct '07 01:51
    Originally posted by ih8sens
    Is it against the rules to play an unrated game against someone, knowing that they will use an engine?

    I just challenged someone who called my game against crafty (in another thread) a hoax.

    Just wanted to make sure it wasn't against the rules... didn't want to get him in trouble .

    edit - to make it more clear.. i asked him to use an engine ag ...[text shortened]... yone but I think it would be fun anyways... just wanted to make sure this is all above board.
    unrated, heck
    I see no harm period as long as both players agree to the terms.
    we'd just have to make a system where both players check a box saying that they agree...
    that avoids the: Russ, I never said he could use an engine, and 100% of his moves matched my comp.s during analysis. or other forms of lying.



    off topic: at the bottom of the screen, where It says Important: Posts on this board may be subject... .
    what is flaming?