Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Only Chess Forum

Only Chess Forum

  1. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    26 Nov '13 23:19 / 4 edits
    Rather than railroad the game thread, I wanted to share this with SG and the gang. I jokingly said to offer a draw to which SG replied

    [quote]Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Rescinded! We fight until someone dies. Offering draws is for pansies.

    Consider this, your first goal as a chess player should be to not lose the game. Winning is great, but if you flat out lose winning ain't happening.
    Think of Iron Tiger and his tenacious steel like reserve. Pansies?? Fischer/Bronstein, and all the tactics and sparks you'd expect from such a clash of ideas. They ain't pussies. 😛

    [Event "Blitz"]
    [Site "Herceg Novi (Yugoslavia)"]
    [Date "1970.04.08"]
    [EventDate "?"]
    [Round "7.1"]
    [Result "1/2-1/2"]
    [White "Robert James Fischer"]
    [Black "David Bronstein"]
    [ECO "C16"]
    [WhiteElo "?"]
    [BlackElo "?"]
    [PlyCount "93"]



    Not too sure about the notes, sorry 🙁
  2. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    26 Nov '13 23:42
    Originally posted by ChessPraxis
    Rather than railroad the game thread, I wanted to share this with SG and the gang. I jokingly said to offer a draw to which SG replied

    [quote]Originally posted by SwissGambit
    [b]Rescinded! We fight until someone dies. Offering draws is for pansies.


    Consider this, your first goal as a chess player should be to not lose the game. Winning ...[text shortened]... 8 {44...Ka6 gave Black more chances for a win.}
    45. Be4 Qf8+ 46. Kg6 Qe8+ 47. Kf5 1/2-1/2[/pgn][/b]
    You can offer a draw in that kind of position. That's pretty much the only way Fischer would give anyone a draw - you'd have to take him down to the endgame and prove that your position was still equal.

    I disagree that the first goal is not to lose. The first goal is to win. Playing purely defensive chess can lead to positions in which you have no real chances - you end up just watching as the opponent slowly improves his position and strangles you. It takes a player with the positional understanding of a Petrosian to win with that style. Class players, like me, usually don't do very well playing that way.

    Players like Fischer and Alekhine showed that you can play for a win in every game and succeed against the world's best.
  3. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    26 Nov '13 23:50
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    You can offer a draw in that kind of position. That's pretty much the only way Fischer would give anyone a draw - you'd have to take him down to the endgame and prove that your position was still equal.

    I disagree that the first goal is not to lose. The first goal is to [b]win
    . Playing purely defensive chess can lead to positions in which y ...[text shortened]... Alekhine showed that you can play for a win in every game and succeed against the world's best.[/b]
    Good points
    Hey what's up with Fischer's game notes? 😕 It's like they mismatched games or something. 😕
  4. Subscriber moonbus
    Uber-Nerd
    26 Nov '13 23:59
    I translate SG's "...pansies" as the equivalent of a Klingon war whoop: "Today is a good day for you to die!"

    A draw is a flubbed opportunity to have won.
  5. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    27 Nov '13 01:33
    Here's a fixed version.

  6. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    27 Nov '13 02:03
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Here's a fixed version.

    [pgn]
    [Date "2013.11.26"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "Fischer"]
    [Black "Bronstein"]
    [Result "*"]
    [PlyCount "93"]
    [EventDate "2013.??.??"]
    1. e4 {Notes by Bobby Fischer} e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e5 b6 5. a3 Bf8 {For a time Robert Byrne, the American grandmaster, enjoyed considerable success with 5...Bxc3+ 6 bxc3 Ne7 7 Qg4 but a ...[text shortened]... a6 gave Black more chances for a win.} 45. Be4 Qf8+ 46. Kg6 Qe8+ 47. Kf5 {draw agreed} *
    [/pgn]
    Thanks SG, you're alright for a swashbuckling crazy dude. 🙂
  7. 27 Nov '13 16:57 / 2 edits
    SG is correct, always play to win.
    Playing with a draw in hand is all very well but if you have the advantage,
    even it's sligjht then it is your duty to chess to attack.
    Infact it can be classed as blunder if you don't.
    By not playing to increases your advantage it will disappear and
    that means you opponent may possibly be better.

    I read recently that Petrosian discovered that with his snuffing out
    attacking ideas, even before his opponent knew they were there,
    style of play that he could beat fellow GM's.
    They added this is why he never really fully developed as a strong chess player. (EH?)

    I consider being champion of the world fully developed but I know what
    he means. Petrosian did agree to an awful lots of draws by setting up these
    no play for you defences because he left himself little chance of winning
    unless he opponent decided to batter his head against them.

    Larsen is the best exponent of a player always playing to win.
    He knew he would lose some but figured he would win more than the lost
    (and he did) so he took what other GM's would call risks.

    Larsen 6-0 loss v Fischer is a perfect example.
    Fischer offered him draws in a couple of games via repetition when the
    position was level or indeed when all Larsen's attack would yield was a perpetual.
    Larsen refused them trying to post a win.

    Game 6 Larsen v Fischer.


    Larsen played 30.Rf4 going the win and lost. Instead he must have seen...