Giuoco Piano

hey, i think there might be another thread with this same name, so i hope no one gets to confused...
I was wondering about play after this line:
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Bc5

the Italian Game...
if I see this third move while I am playing white, I am considering this as an alternative to the Giuoco Pianissimo

4. c3 Nf6
5. d4 exd4
6. cxd4

here, black can play 6. ... Bb4+ or a new one (for me) Bb6
if 6. ... Bb4+ (the line I will probably see more often) then:
7. Nc3

is what I am considering as a response...
i'll try to put boards up later...
after I figure out how to get the FEN format thingy...

http://www.exeterchessclub.org.uk/index2.html has a great discussion on the Italian Game.

Originally posted by rubberjaw30
hey, i think there might be another thread with this same name, so i hope no one gets to confused...
I was wondering about play after this line:
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Bc5

the Italian Game...
if I see this third move while I am playing white, I am considering this as an alternative to the Giuoco Pianissimo

4. c3 Nf6
5. d4 exd4
6. cx ...[text shortened]... ...
i'll try to put boards up later...
after I figure out how to get the FEN format thingy...

here's an easy way to set up FEN. Go to open invites, click "set game." Set up the position you are talking about. It gives you the fen. Copy and Paste here.

ok, if this works, then this is the position after move 3...
The Italian Game

... & this is the Italian Game worth playing - aka the Evans Gambit
4.b4!

this is the Greco/Moeller Variation...
how playable is it?
what is considered best play?

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
... & this is the Italian Game worth playing - aka the Evans Gambit
4.b4!
[fen]r1bqk1nr/pppp1ppp/2n5/2b1p3/1PB1P3/5N2/P1PP1PPP/RNBQK2R b KQkq b3 0 4[/fen]

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Bc5
4. b4? Bxb4!
5. c3? Ba5!
6. d4? Nf6!

the (!)s and (?)s aren't necessary...
i just thought I would make it known that the Evan's Gambit is like one huge blunder...
white gets NO compensation for the pawn...
I favor black here:

Originally posted by rubberjaw30
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Bc5
4. b4? Bxb4!
5. c3? Ba5!
6. d4? Nf6!

the (!)s and (?)s aren't necessary...
i just thought I would make it known that the Evan's Gambit is like one huge blunder...
white gets NO compensation for the pawn...
I favor black here:

[fen]r1bqk2r/pppp1ppp/2n2n2/b3p3/2BPP3/2P2N2/P4PPP/RNBQK2R w KQkq - 0 1[/fen]

You're incorrect.
After
6.d4...Nf6?
then
7.dxe5...Ng4
8.Bg5! & white looks very strong

black to move


You forget the Evans has been theorised since the 1830's & is still popular today, for example with Timman, Short & Kasparov amongst (many) others!

Originally posted by rubberjaw30
[fen]r1bqk2r/pppp1ppp/2n2n2/8/1bBPP3/2N2N2/PP3PPP/R1BQK2R w KQkq - 0 1[/fen]
this is the Greco/Moeller Variation...
how playable is it?
what is considered best play?

It is not bad at all. 7.Nc3 Nxe4 8.0-0 Bxc3 d5! leads to sharp and interesting play. Both sides have chances.

A good alternative to 7.Nc3 is 7.Bd2. Could follow:

- Nxe4 8.Bxb4 Nxb4 9.Bxf7+ Kxf7 10.Qb3 d5 11.Ne5+ Ke6 12.Qxb4

or
- Bxd2 8.Nbxd2 and now either 8. ... d5 or 8. ... Nxe4 9.Nxe4 d5 both lead to interesting play.

Originally posted by Mephisto2
It is not bad at all. 7.Nc3 Nxe4 8.0-0 Bxc3 d5! leads to sharp and interesting play. Both sides have chances.

A good alternative to 7.Nc3 is 7.Bd2. Could follow:

- Nxe4 8.Bxb4 Nxb4 9.Bxf7+ Kxf7 10.Qb3 d5 11.Ne5+ Ke6 12.Qxb4

or
- Bxd2 8.Nbxd2 and now either 8. ... d5 or 8. ... Nxe4 9.Nxe4 d5 both lead to interesting play.

ok, so you gave a line...
does white get any quicker play after this?
7. Nc3 Nxe4
8. d5
rather than castling and giving black the a1 rook for a huge initiative...
or would this just be a blunder hanging a rok for no compensation?

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
You're incorrect.
After
6.d4...Nf6?
then
7.dxe5...Ng4
8.Bg5! & white looks very strong

black to move
[fen]r1bqk2r/pppp1ppp/2n5/b3P1B1/2B1P1n1/2P2N2/P4PPP/RN1QK2R b KQkq - 0 8[/fen]

You forget the Evans has been theorised since the 1830's & is still popular today, for example with Timman, Short & Kasparov amongst (many) others!

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Bc5
4. b4 Bxb4
5. c3 Ba5
6. d4 Nf6
7. dxe5 Nxe4 (not Ng4?)
and white must defend c3 or gambit off the c3 pawn as if Nxc3 Nxc3? Bxc3+ wins rook...

nevermind...

Originally posted by 93confirmed
nevermind...

nevermind what?
you haven't said anything in this thread...
and as for the Evan's gambit person, please make a new thread about it...
save this one for the Italian Game 4. c3 variation

Originally posted by rubberjaw30
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Bc5
4. b4 Bxb4
5. c3 Ba5
6. d4 Nf6
7. dxe5 Nxe4 (not Ng4?)
and white must defend c3 or gambit off the c3 pawn as if Nxc3 Nxc3? Bxc3+ wins rook...

Wrong again!
After 7...Nxe4?
then 8.Qd5!

black to play


threatening mate on f7 & Ne4 so black loses the knight (unless he has had enough already!)

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
Wrong again!
After 7...Nxe4?
then 8.Qd5!

black to play
[fen]r1bqk2r/pppp1ppp/2n5/b2QP3/2B1n3/2P2N2/P4PPP/RNB1K2R b KQkq - 0 8[/fen]

threatening mate on f7 & Ne4 so black loses the knight (unless he has had enough already!)

wow
you fooled me
i feel tricked
man, it's amazing how you caught me on that one...
please excuse the sarcasm...
still...
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Bc5
4. b4
here, black would be fine declining with Bb6, leaving a retarted looking pawn on b4 that isn't doing anything whatsoever...
but black is even better afteraccepting...
4. ... Bxb4
5. c3 Bc5 after looking at it, i changed my mind...
i like this better for black, as with the bishop on a5, he gets few chances to take advantage of the pin on c3
6. d4 exd4
7. cxd4 Bb6

black has a pawn, and only los a move developing and the center...
white gave up a lot of space on the queenside for black to find easy counterplay...
I still think black is winning...the Evan's gambit is weak...
the only reason thse GMs play it is because they're GMs-- they play whatever the hell they want to play!