Guioco Piano Variation

How do you think of the following:

Originally posted by moteutsch
How do you think of the following:

[pgn]1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. c3 Nf6 5. d4 exd4 6. cxd4 Bb4+ 7. Bd2 Nxe4 8. Bxb4 Nxb4 9. Bxf7+ Kxf7 10. Qb3+ d5 11. Qxb4[/pgn]

thats an interesting twist.. i think i would just try evans gambit as white there though but that was very good

Originally posted by moteutsch
[b]How do you think of the following:

]1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. c3 etc...

Very interesting. I often play the GP but usually go for Nc3 instead of Bd2. (the Greco Gambt).
Everyone knows it up to 13.h6 but White has 5 tricky replies.
All you have to do is guess the one your opponent does not know.

This idea looks fun - where did you get it?

Spotted this line (which makes me think I may have seen it before).

Idea:
"How about Ne5+ first before taking the b4 Knight. The King goes
to the back rank keeping the h8 Rook out of play."

Shoddy Analysis:
"Don't think King can come towards centre."

But:
11.Ne5+ Ke6! 12.Qxb4 Qf8! Game on.

Interesting... good post.

It's been quite a while since I played a giuoco but isn't this just the normal modern variation?Except that 11.Ne5+ is prefered over 11.Qxb4.

What am I missing?

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Very interesting. I often play the GP but usually go for Nc3 instead of Bd2. (the Greco Gambt).
Everyone knows it up to 13.h6 but White has 5 tricky replies.
All you have to do is guess the one your opponent does not know.

I used to play the Greco a lot in my reckless youth. I found that most people I played (up to 2000 approx) didn't know the lines up to the 13th move and I had many nice wins with it.

The Greco is completely unsound I'm sure but I think Nc3 is superiour to Bd2 because of the potential drawing line that you can get with the bishop move.

Originally posted by JonathanB of London
I found that most people I played (up to 2000 approx) didn't know the lines up to the 13th move

Good how from region to region chess fashions and opening ideas
alter. In Scotland the lads seemed to be booked up to the 13th move.
I thought everyone over 1600 knew it. Seemed that way.

Played a blitz game on here with it just a few days ago. Got 13..h6.
I won that one but have lost a few others. Usually win if they
do not know theory to move 13.

(I think one of us had better do a PGN so the rest of the boys
can see what we are talking about)



Now 13...0-0 14.Nxh7 leads to a well known book draw.
But Black has to know it and this is where I have scored a few wins.

13...h6 and things theory wise look bad for White.
White has plausible tries. 14.Nxf7 14.Bb5+ 14.Qe2 etc
OK for Blitz but not for OTB against a well prepared opponent.

OPEN GAMBITS by George Botterill covers all these things in a
nice entertaining way.

Back to main thread - is 11.Ne5+ Ke6 with the 12...Qf8 idea any good?
Looked OK last night. Perhaps White can just castle and go for
the exposed King a piece down.

Interesting - give me something to look at in the pub tonight
with the rest of the gang.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
OPEN GAMBITS by George Botterill covers all these things in a
nice entertaining way.

That's exactly where I learned it.

THe strange thing I found with this line ... the longer my opponent followed theory the more likely I was to win - even though one main line from move 13 ends in a forced draw and the other is better for black theoretically.

If my opponent varied early I'd sometimes fail to find the refutation at the board. I had quite a few accidents this way against players I'd hope to beat which is why I eventually gave the line up.

These days I usually play the somewhat less thrilling 1. Nf3!

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Good how from region to region chess fashions and opening ideas
alter. In Scotland the lads seemed to be booked up to the 13th move.
I thought everyone over 1600 knew it. Seemed that way.

Played a blitz game on here with it just a few days ago. Got 13..h6.
I won that one but have lost a few others. Usually win if they
do not know theory to move 1 ...[text shortened]... ting - give me something to look at in the pub tonight
with the rest of the gang.

there are of course alternatives to 9...Bf6 some of which have done well for black, the illustrious scotland club are currently playing those woosies redhotpawn international with this exact position at present, once they are whupped and finished their lamentations we shall reveal the strengths of our strategy.

Originally posted by JonathanB of London
These days I usually play the somewhat less thrilling 1. Nf3!

Oh no.

Another fellow gambiteer has gone west.

1.e4 in this day and age is a massive statement.

1.e4...

I don't care what £14.99 opening book you have.
The French, The Caro Kahn, The Pirc, The Siclian...

Bring it on. I'm ready for anything you have.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Very interesting. I often play the GP but usually go for Nc3 instead of Bd2. (the Greco Gambt).
Everyone knows it up to 13.h6 but White has 5 tricky replies.
All you have to do is guess the one your opponent does not know.

This idea looks fun - where did you get it?

Spotted this line (which makes me think I may have seen it before).

Idea:
"H towards centre."

But:
11.Ne5+ Ke6! 12.Qxb4 Qf8! Game on.

Interesting... good post.

Yes, you are most certainly right, Ne5+ is better! It never occured to me...

I actually had thought of this line a year or so ago, but I thought it was pretty much rubbish. I used to play 0-0 instead of d5, but I decided to analyze the old line.

Thanks for the input everyone. this looks pretty good!

Updated PGN:

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Oh no.

Another fellow gambiteer has gone west.

I'm afraid this is true.

These days it normally takes me 20 moves to get my second piece to my third rank.

The problem with this line (for White) is that Black's move as shown (7...Nxe4) is rather weak. Instead, after 7...Bxd2 8.Nbxd2 d5 9.exd5 Nxd5 Black seems to be doing well. This is the sort of information that can easily be found in game databases (that's where I got it) and so for cc games this may not be the strongest line for White.

Offhand, I would have to say that the problem is 5.d4, whereas 5.d3 seems quite strong for White.