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  1. 17 May '13 16:22 / 5 edits
    I was reading an article elsewhere and I was wondering if you guys who have played chess in tournaments and OTB have noticed whether the internet has changed chess. The author was claiming that interest in chess clubs was down and participation in tournaments down. After all why pay £100 to enter a tournament and perhaps travelling expenses and accommodation expenses when you can play on the net for free?

    The author also made the point that with technology why cant OTB tournaments be played via the internet. He cited the Russia v the rest of the world radio match and Fischer playing by phone in a tournament in Cuba. Surely technology is at such a level that tournaments can be held internationally without the need for participants to travel, all one needs is an arbiter in one location and an arbiter in another.

    Any thoughts?
  2. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    18 May '13 03:06 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I was reading an article elsewhere and I was wondering if you guys who have played chess in tournaments and OTB have noticed whether the internet has changed chess. The author was claiming that interest in chess clubs was down and participation in tournaments down. After all why pay £100 to enter a tournament and perhaps travelling expenses and acc ...[text shortened]... travel, all one needs is an arbiter in one location and an arbiter in another.

    Any thoughts?
    I am going to a tourney tomorrow. It's a good excuse to get out of the house and see some of my chess friends. Thankfully, the entry fee is only $10. I still like these cheaper one-day events even though I play extensively online.
  3. Standard member vivify
    rain
    18 May '13 03:46
    The internet has definitely changed chess. Because of the internet, you can't catch the average chess player with things like the "Fishing Pole" or "Hook" mate. I think the internet has made the average chess player much better. I also think the internet is responsible for an increase in chess players as well, since it's so easy to learn how to play, practice, and get tips because of the net.

    In regards to tournaments, however, it's not a great idea to have them via the internet. Technology simply makes it much easier to cheat nowadays, and this will only get easier still, as technology advances. And while people will still find ways to use technology to cheat OTB, tourneys over the net is just asking for trouble.

    That said, I suppose internet tourneys can be fairly played, if there are trusted officials observing each player in thier area, while standing next to the computer (or whatever internet device is being used) with protocols in place to make sure there's no cheating going on. But that could possibly be harder to do than it sounds.
  4. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    18 May '13 05:09
    Originally posted by vivify
    The internet has definitely changed chess. Because of the internet, you can't catch the average chess player with things like the "Fishing Pole" or "Hook" mate. I think the internet has made the average chess player much better. I also think the internet is responsible for an increase in chess players as well, since it's so easy to learn how to play, pract ...[text shortened]... e there's no cheating going on. But that could possibly be harder to do than it sounds.
    Technology also makes it easier for people to cheat at OTB chess too, and way easy on the net. The thing that has to happen is real time analysis of the levels one is playing at to see if the moves match a particular set of program/CPU combination. That would take a LOT of computational ability that chess organizations are unlikely to be able to come up with, at least in real time. Suppose player XX wins a tournie and takes home 50,000 bucks and then later analysis shows he was somehow in touch with a 3000 rated engine, hell, in a few years it could be up his butt, you can't tell where technology is going. Then what? You force him to give up the 50K? What if he has skipped town?

    What do you do? Have each player go through an N ray scanner before entering the playing arena? Organizations probably won't be able to afford that kind of thing either so there will be cheats and there will be very little we can do about it except do some statistics on the suspect, like last year he was 1700 and all of a sudden, a year later he is playing like a 2600 player. That kind of thing may be the only saving grace of tournies.
  5. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    18 May '13 05:34 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Technology also makes it easier for people to cheat at OTB chess too, and way easy on the net. The thing that has to happen is real time analysis of the levels one is playing at to see if the moves match a particular set of program/CPU combination. That would take a LOT of computational ability that chess organizations are unlikely to be able to come up wit he is playing like a 2600 player. That kind of thing may be the only saving grace of tournies.
    If someone wants to cheat badly enough, they can probably get away with it. That being said, we could, and should, take reasonable steps to stop the more obvious forms of cheating. For one, the USCF needs to change policy to forbid any sort of electronic scorekeeping. It is far too easy to cheat if people are allowed to be operating electronic devices after every single move.

    At major prize tourneys - the kind of with entry fees in the hundreds of $ and prizes in the thousands, I think we are the point of wanding people entering the playing area and doing engine matchup analysis on the major prizewinners (anything over, say, $1K) before paying out.
  6. Subscriber Marinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    18 May '13 06:58
    This is an interesting question. When i first attended a chess club, i did it with something approaching awe. "They must all be really good" i thought...and they were! One thing really surprised me though, all most everyone i met held a similar scorn for internet chess. Why you might ask??

    Well it definitely seems to be a generational thing. Most of the players at my club were life long players, where as i myself only learned the game at 23. Without the internet, i would never have had an opportunity to learn the game at all. Even if i had learned the rules, there is no way in hell i would have acquired anything like the skill involved to compete at club level, not a hope in hell!

    One thing i do find amusing though is that, after a few years playing club and internet chess, i found i surpassed a good 60/70% of my club mates in grade simply because i was practicing every day.

    It is difficult for me to comment on how the internet has changed chess, for my only experience of the game is well inside the internet era. But when i look at the difference between players who play online and players who don't, there is definitely big difference. Anyone who plays regularly, year after year for the same club team often plays the same opponents again and again. This doesn't breed a great deal of diversity into your game. Exposure to varying styles has got to be the best practice, there are so many ways to play this game it just blows my mind. If you're only playing 20 or 30 games a year (which prior to the internet was most likely the average) you never really get enough practice.

    I think if the internet has changed one thing, it has probably (and i am speculating a little here) it has probably resulted in people reading less and playing more (for obvious reason). I have read some chess books, but the vast amount of my 'training' is done either playing blitz or doing tactics puzzles online. If i want to study a book i often look the games up online so i don't need to get a board out! 😛
  7. 18 May '13 09:34
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    I am going to a tourney tomorrow. It's a good excuse to get out of the house and see some of my chess friends. Thankfully, the entry fee is only $10. I still like these cheaper one-day events even though I play extensively online.
    for $10 dollars id want a slice of pizza and a kiss from two models at the presentation 😛

    But seriously ten dollars is not excessive and excellent value.
  8. Standard member congruent
    Chess Player
    18 May '13 09:34
    The internet really hasn't changed chess just as radio or phones didn't change chess under Fisher's era. When you go to the chess club, a match, tournament etc you leave your books/databases etc behind and it just you vs the other player.

    In OTB chess, if you can't remember a variation, trap etc you can't. If you can, profit and move along remember the clock is ticking!!
  9. 18 May '13 09:41
    Originally posted by Marinkatomb
    This is an interesting question. When i first attended a chess club, i did it with something approaching awe. "They must all be really good" i thought...and they were! One thing really surprised me though, all most everyone i met held a similar scorn for internet chess. Why you might ask??

    Well it definitely seems to be a generational thing. Most of t ...[text shortened]... to study a book i often look the games up online so i don't need to get a board out! 😛
    its really quite interesting, thanks for your experience.
  10. 19 May '13 03:06 / 3 edits
    The other lad was right.

    OTB Chess is still the same, but one very slight change. Live Games.

    I know players who refused for various reason to have their game transmitted live.
    This can lead to a re-seating of the players, (not a redraw of the round)
    as they move the player off the electronic board and move two other
    willing players onto it.

    Never gone live, don't know if that would affect how I play.
    I centainly would not refuse.
    I would like to think it may inspire me, or it may even make one play
    a different game to what they normally play.
    I'm thinking most will forget it's there once the game starts.
    (To an extent we are all playing live games here!)

    It would certainly nag at the back of the mind especially if you
    were about to play double-edged sac.
    Suddenly the whole world is watching, are you going to a champ or a chump.

    Not sure if interent chess is killing chess clubs.
    I know some clubs are going down, but others are thriving.
    Tournament entry is down but is it because we can get our fix on the net?

    Never yet had the adrenaline rush you get before an OTB game on the net.
    That is some buzz.
    You have to take part in a tournament while you can Robbie.
    It is an amazing experience. Unforgetable.
    You will do OK.

    And you often see lads posting on here saying they are off to their
    first tournament, maybe they would not have gone had it not been for
    internet chess.

    It is most likely electronic games, that is having an effect on chess.
    The Play Station Generation.

    I wonder how many budding IM's & GM's are sitting at this very moment
    in their bedroom (with a 'Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter' poster on their door)
    slaying dragons, playing football or racing cars on an X-Box.

    Played in a 6 board telephone match for Wandering Dragons v Shetland
    in the 80's. It took ages. I recall I had to checkmate my opponent when
    all his team mates had resigned.
  11. 19 May '13 09:06
    Computer has changed chess, internet did not.
    Internet might have changed - as it so modern to say today - whole world including approach to chess but I doubt it. As much I doubt that the books will be kiled by e-books.

    Computer changed the chess also in the way that it is no konger possible to make mistake lik Pilnik did when he was comenting live (note: live before internet) a game between Byrne and Fischef from USA championship 1964 and when he had said "You can't see ehat Black has for this sacifice..." And Byrne resigned a couple of moves later.

    Now you have computer analysis during the WC game Gelfand - Anand and you do not have to be present in the hall covered with heavy carpets etc...

    Internet changed the chess as cell phones changed crime and spy novel.
  12. 19 May '13 12:20 / 1 edit
    Hi Vanders.

    Agree there alright.

    I don't know if you have been lucky enough to catch Andrew Martin
    doing live commentary on games in progress. Live as in 'in the flesh' not online.

    He is quite superb.
    No computer to aid him, just him and three games as he spun his way
    through them cracking jokes all the way.
    He was good and would often see within minutes the plans that
    were about to unfold.

    He would spot a tactical trick and ask the audience if anyone can see it.
    First to put up their hand and get it right were tossed a chess book.

    Alas that was in Edinburgh a number of years ago.

    I went down to the recent British Championship and was sorry to see
    he to now has a computer and a box operator giving him guidance.
    Not quite the same.

    I did live commentary with demo boards twice in the 80's.
    (only one board though - they only had one demo board...mine!)

    Good fun, you have to be on your toes, the audience can see the board
    better than you. You don't know what is coming, you pray the chosen
    game is one you can get your teeth into. (If I recall they were OK.)

    Here is the finale to the Byrne - Fischer game, one note by Byrne,
    two by me adding the finish Fischer was so disapointed not to play.

    Robert Byrne - Bobby Fishcer USA Ch. New York 1963/64
    (that year the US Champs went through Dec '63 to Jan '64)

  13. 19 May '13 12:40
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    The other lad was right.

    OTB Chess is still the same, but one very slight change. Live Games.

    I know players who refused for various reason to have their game transmitted live.
    This can lead to a re-seating of the players, (not a redraw of the round)
    as they move the player off the electronic board and move two other
    willing players onto it.

    ...[text shortened]... ook ages. I recall I had to checkmate my opponent when
    all his team mates had resigned.
    if i want to enter the Scottish open as a super patzer it costs me in the region of £100 to enter, if i need to travel its costs me travelling expenses, if i need a place to stay i will need to pay hotel fees, all in all i could be out in excess of £500 just to get a whuppin and even if i win the whole event i may just cover my costs, although it would be hard to put price on the bragging rights. Why are there not more tournaments like the one swiss gambit mentioned, $10, thats about £6.51. Even if you get fifty players and split the prize money say sixty/thirty and ten percent its still gonna be more worth it than if i play in the Scottish open.

    The problem for me is that the chess club near me is seasonal, it only meets during the league season, September to April i think and is held in a war memorial building.
  14. 20 May '13 17:00
    Besides playing a few folks at work during lunch or after hours, I stuck to correspondence games mostly. I am a terrible OTB player, but playing correspondence style I get the time I need to evaluate the game as I play.

    The internet fits my play perfectly.

    I think chess computer programs changed the game more than the internet. Hearing stories of GMs cycling through 100's of games in a day during preparation makes my brain hurt. The computers analyze the moves for them and by running through so many games, they can start to memorize patterns.
  15. 20 May '13 18:05
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    The problem for me is that the chess club near me is seasonal, it only meets during the league season, September to April i think and is held in a war memorial building.
    This much is true, why do chess clubs always seem to meet in such offensive buildings? British Legion Clubs, Navy or RAF clubs, and Conservative Clubs. Luckily, ours meets in a nice normal pub, and the only other one I ever joined was in a YMCA.