#### Only Chess Forum

1. 01 Feb '07 15:38
Win or not?

The following game Game 3006810 was played against a fairly good player (probably better then his rating says). I was sure to win it, so sure that I didn't calculate a simple variation on move 44. I should have played Kd2 but instead I played Ke3?? and was only able to draw the game. It was probably possible to win it if you gave it a long thought but I got a little put off. Not that it matters very much that I lost but it would be fun to know if there is some theqnique to win this queen endgame, ofcourse that is trade queens or win the pawn with check. But how?
2. 01 Feb '07 15:57 / 1 edit
easy win for white. take the last black pawn and there is nothing black can do with only a queen.
3. 01 Feb '07 16:42
thanks,and sorry for being so lazy, yes that's right all I have to do is take the pawn, even without check. But let's say you have 1 min left on the clock and you want to be sure you win without having to risk perpetual checks...then I want to win the pawn with check, do you know how to do this without having to work it out. Thanks
4. 01 Feb '07 16:43
well if I had 1min left, I would still take the pawn and just do my best to achieve queen exchange or promote a pawn.
5. 01 Feb '07 17:34
?????

Even if the game is theoritically drawn, it is up to Black to prove it.....

All white has to do is nap the pawn, when black plays for pepetual, move up the board, use the pawns+queen for cover, and look out for double checks....

I'd say White has a good Chance of Winning.
6. 01 Feb '07 17:40
take the pawn and try for a win. why not?
7. 01 Feb '07 17:49
I don't think it's so simple. Black will win back a pawn almost immediately
8. 01 Feb '07 17:54
Originally posted by Sharastani
I don't think it's so simple. Black will win back a pawn almost immediately
That depends......A Qf6 would defend both pawns, the only thing is, after Qe2+, you would have to move queenside (in order to keep the pawn.)
9. 01 Feb '07 18:08
Originally posted by sleightjacke
Win or not?
Since the game is completed, the following site can be used to get perfect information following Qxe4+. The position is won for White.

http://www.shredderchess.com/online-chess/online-databases/endgame-database.html

NOTE! I am *not* recommending this link for use during games in progress - see the TOS.
10. 01 Feb '07 18:14
[Event "Shootout (Fritz8, 9ply) "]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "NN"]
[Black "Fritz 8"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/8/2k3Q1/8/4p2P/4K3/5P2/3q4 b - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "42"]

1... Kc7 2. Qf7+ Kd8 3. Qf8+ Kd7 4. Qf5+ Kd6 5. Qf4+ Kd7 6. Kxe4 Qe2+ 7. Kf5
Qh5+ 8. Kf6 Qh8+ 9. Kg6 Qg8+ 10. Kh5 Qe8+ 11. Kg4 Qg6+ 12. Qg5 Qe4+ 13. Kg3 Qb1
14. Qf6 Qg1+ 15. Kf3 Qd1+ 16. Kf4 Qg1 17. f3 Qc1+ 18. Kf5 Qg1 19. h5 Qg2 20.
Qf7+ Kc8 21. f4 Qg3 22. h6 1-0

[Event "Shootout (Fruit21, 9ply) "]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "NN"]
[Black "Fritz 8"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/8/2k3Q1/8/4p2P/4K3/5P2/3q4 b - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "42"]

1... Kc5 2. Qf5+ Kb6 3. Qe6+ Kb5 4. Qe8+ Ka5 5. Qe5+ Ka6 6. Qf6+ Kb5 7. Kxe4
Qe2+ 8. Kd5 Qa2+ 9. Ke5 Qe2+ 10. Kd6 Qd2+ 11. Ke7 Qe2+ 12. Kf7 Qc4+ 13. Kg7 Kb4
14. f4 Qd5 15. f5 Qd7+ 16. Kg6 Qe8+ 17. Kh6 Qe4 18. h5 Kc5 19. Qg5 Qf3 20. f6+
Kc4 21. Kg7 Kb4 22. f7 1-0

[Event "Shootout (Crafty191, 9ply) "]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "NN"]
[Black "Fritz 8"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/8/2k3Q1/8/4p2P/4K3/5P2/3q4 b - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "38"]

1... Kd7 2. Qf5+ Kd8 3. Kxe4 Qc2+ 4. Ke5 Qc5+ 5. Kf6 Qf8+ 6. Kg5 Qg7+ 7. Kh5
Qh8+ 8. Kg4 Qd4+ 9. f4 Qg1+ 10. Kh5 Kc7 11. Qf7+ Kb8 12. f5 Qc5 13. Qg8+ Kc7
14. Qg5 Qf8 15. f6 Qe8+ 16. Qg6 Qe5+ 17. Kh6 Qf4+ 18. Qg5 Qd6 19. h5 Kd7 20.
Kh7 1-0
11. 01 Feb '07 20:14 / 1 edit
A couple of month ago I learnt opposition with k+p vs. k and I've won or saved lost games by knowing this simple rule. In the same way I think it's pretty frequent that one player get's queen with check with both colored pawns on the board. Isn't there any 'perfect' trick to this endgame or no because it's more complex.
12.  Ragnorak
01 Feb '07 20:32 / 2 edits
Originally posted by sleightjacke
A couple of month ago I learnt opposition with k+p vs. k and I've won or saved lost games by knowing this simple rule. In the same way I think it's pretty frequent that one player get's queen with check with both colored pawns on the board. Isn't there any 'perfect' trick to this endgame or no because it's more complex.
You need to know about opposition, outflanking, corresponding squares. mined squares and zugzwang as well as blockading and what squares you can go to while still being able to stop your opponents pawn from queening (Rule of square, explained here...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_and_pawn_versus_king)

Its an area I'm studying a lot, as it doesn't suit my natural ability in chess. Its not about analysing, but putting into practice the principles I mentioned above.

This endgame problem uses most of the mentioned principles.

White to play and win.

The solution is below. Try to solve it yourself first.

D

1. Ke7 Kc8 2. Kd6 Kb7 3. Kd7 Kb8 4. Kc6 Ka7 5. Kc7 1-0
13.  Ragnorak
01 Feb '07 20:51
Mined squares are shown in this position.

White to move

The squares c5 and e4 are mined, meaning who ever enters one first loses.

D
14.  malinga
That would be me
01 Feb '07 21:17
Originally posted by Ragnorak
Mined squares are shown in this position.
[fen]8/8/8/1K1p4/3P1k2/8/8/8 w - - 0 1[/fen]
White to move

The squares c5 and e4 are mined, meaning who ever enters one first loses.

D
never heard mined squares term before. very interesting and nice simple example. cheers.

btw solved your top puzzle after a little (drunken) thought. not sure i would have done it otb though
15.  Ragnorak