Help needed...

Hi all,

I just finished this 3/7 clan league game Game 24798

The game was a tough fought match, where I thought I would win several times. The game, however, turned out differently and we agreed to a draw. What I'm asking this excellent forum is: How do black win after move 24?

[Event "Clan league"]
[Site "http://www.playtheimmortalgame.com"]
[Date "2009.12.14"]
[EndDate "2010.02.23"]
[Round "?"]
[White "my2sons"]
[Black "Lundos"]
[WhiteRating "1823"]
[BlackRating "1985"]
[WhiteELO "1823"]
[BlackELO "1985"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[GameId "6979438"]



Any help would be appreciated.

P.S The other player is okay with me posting this game for forum analysis.

I would say that you have to play where you have an advantage. i.e. not on the king side, not in the center (you have one more pawn, but he has a very good knight.) but on the queen side.

Spontaneously then I would say something like

24. ... Rb8, and then pushing your a and b pawns to promotion.

you put pressure there, and then you see how he defends and possibly put the pressure elsewhere...

EDIT but maybe before that, just h5 to lock definitely the king side

Hmm...White has compensation for the pawn at move 24 - the Nd6 is a royal pain, white has more space, and black's Knights are stuck defending each other [or else a wR gets in on c7, as in the game].

The two plans I can see are 1) Macpo's Rb8 idea, although white can easily get both Rooks to the queenside, and black has some trouble doing the same; and 2) try to get the Knights untangled somehow - work towards an eventual Nc8, challenging the Nd6. Easier said than done.

Thanks for the comments. I considered pushing the a and b pawns, but it looked like white could stop it relatively easy.

I tried to untangle the two knights, but the 26. Rc7 gave him a very strong position.

At least I didn't lose. 🙂

Originally posted by Lundos
Hi all,

I just finished this 3/7 clan league game Game 24798

The game was a tough fought match, where I thought I would win several times. The game, however, turned out differently and we agreed to a draw. What I'm asking this excellent forum is: How do black win after move 24?

[Event "Clan league"]
[Site "http://www.playtheimmortalgame.com"] he other player is okay with me posting this game for forum analysis.

First thing that struck me would be to take out that knight with something like ...Rad8 and then ...Rxd6. You'd be able to win that pawn and have three pawns for the exchange and the one wonderful piece that white has will be gone. But, that would take unsticking the knights too... hmmm.

h5 sounds nice. White cant really do anything on king side anymore. You have the a,b and d pawn who can move up, where white can only do that with the a pawn.

After that I would try to play Nb4, it attacks a pawn that white has to defend, or move up (a3), then you would have to relocate the Knight again. Nd3 would attack a rook, and eventually you could place it on c5. Which would be a decent spot because its protected by a pawn and could move to e4 later in the game if needed.

You cant play Nb4 right away tho, because white gets in with the Rook: Rc7, pressuring your e7 Knight. So first Rfd6 seems in place to allow your King to go to f8 to cover that Knight.

That would be my plan, I understand alot of that is dependend on what white plays tho🙂

Hi Lundos

Not much I can offer on the posted game that not has already been said.
An idea or two but it all gets clatty.

But I did check out the sister game where you are White v my2sons.

I notice that both games finished within a minute of each other and both draws.

Was this a:

'I'll agree a draw in my better postion, if you agree a draw in yours situation?'

Nothing wrong in that and I'm not fishing it just in the final postion of your White.

Black to move.



Black plays Rxe1+ and wins the ending fairly easily?

I've added the ? because endings are not a field I walk tall in.

But I have lost a few 2+3 v 2+4 King and pawn endings in my past.
Usually as White when one of my gambits has failed miserably.

It is a Black win yes?.

Black plays e5 pushing the candiate passed pawn, then activate the King.

The plan I failed to stop was Black blocking the Q-side, creating a passed
K-side pawn.

White has to chase it and the BK walks over to eat the a+b-pawns 0-1.

My endgame knowledge is based soley on rules of thumb.

But King and mulitiple pawn endings where one side is a pawn up
are meant to be the easiest to win.

Just want to know if I'm right?

(about this ending, not why it was agreed a draw - that does not matter).

Originally posted by zozozozo
h5 sounds nice. White cant really do anything on king side anymore. You have the a,b and d pawn who can move up, where white can only do that with the a pawn.

After that I would try to play Nb4, it attacks a pawn that white has to defend, or move up (a3), then you would have to relocate the Knight again. Nd3 would attack a rook, and eventually you could ...[text shortened]... ight.

That would be my plan, I understand alot of that is dependend on what white plays tho🙂

Yeah, I should have played h5, and focused solely on the Q-side. I still cannot see a clear way to win it, but you're saying it is possible? Black's position is very locked as soon as Nc6 is moved.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Hi Lundos

Not much I can offer on the posted game that not has already been said.
An idea or two but it all gets clatty.

But I did check out the sister game where you are White v my2sons.

I notice that both games finished within a minute of each other and both draws.

Was this a:

'I'll agree a draw in my better postion, if you agree a dra ...[text shortened]... if I'm right?

(about this ending, not why it was agreed a draw - that does not matter).

My end game knowledge is limited too. I know a few rules, but most of time I just go with a large amount of time spent on 'analyze board' and my feelings.

To answer your first question: No, we didn't agree to draw beforehand. I offered a draw in both games at the same time and my opponent agreed to both.

The second: A pawn up should be enough to win it after we exchanged rooks, but there's a margin of error and an opportunity for a draw. White's king might stand in the way for an easy win. I guess, it depends on how secure you are in end games and the time available for it.

Originally posted by Lundos
Yeah, I should have played h5, and focused solely on the Q-side. I still cannot see a clear way to win it, but you're saying it is possible? Black's position is very locked as soon as Nc6 is moved.

Im not saying its possible but I would try as black😉

What Nc6 are you talking about? Knight on c6 was there since move 11.