24 Dec 08
Sorry, for some reason the content didn't post.
I keep getting nailed by this when playing black.
1. e2-e4 e7-e5 2. Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 3. Bf1-c4 Ng8-f6 4. Nf3-g5 d7-d5 5. e4xd5 Nf6xd5 6. Ng5xf7 Ke8xf7 7. Qd1-f3 Kf7-g8 8. Bc4xd5 Bc8-e6 9. Bd5xe6 1-0
or variations which involve a white knight and bishop attacking the weak pawn at f7. Every time I try to defend, I fail utterly. At best I've managed to escape only losing a rook, at worse I'm checkmated.
Advice?
24 Dec 08
1 edit
Originally posted by lepustimidusIf you don't fancy throwing caution to the wind with the Traxler 4...Bc5!?, then probably 4...d5 5.exd5 Na5 is your best bet.
Sorry, for some reason the content didn't post.
I keep getting nailed by this when playing black.
1. e2-e4 e7-e5 2. Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 3. Bf1-c4 Ng8-f6 4. Nf3-g5 d7-d5 5. e4xd5 Nf6xd5 6. Ng5xf7 Ke8xf7 7. Qd1-f3 Kf7-g8 8. Bc4xd5 Bc8-e6 9. Bd5xe6 1-0
or variations which involve a white knight and bishop attacking the weak pawn at f7. Every time I try ...[text shortened]... terly. At best I've managed to escape only losing a rook, at worse I'm checkmated.
Advice?
This is what Palkovi says:
After 5.exd5 the most frequently applied response is 5...Na5.
By attacking the c4 bishop Black forces his opponent to decide: where is he to move this piece, if he is to move it at all.
Should now White simply move away his bishop, Black would already be able to recapture the d5 pawn without any trouble, and the former move 4.Ng5 would become an entirely senseless loss of tempo.
Therefore White must in fact choose between two moves: he either gives the check 6.Bb5+ or defends the attacked piece with 6.d3.
If you have any questions about any lines just add them to this thread 🙂
24 Dec 08
Originally posted by lepustimidusOn my database 5. ... Nxd5 scores 73.6%. Meaning it is very good for white. Basically you need to play something else at move 5. Squelchbelch´s suggestion 5. ... Na5 is the most popular move, 5. ... b5 and 5. ... Nd4 have also been played and are fine.
Sorry, for some reason the content didn't post.
I keep getting nailed by this when playing black.
1. e2-e4 e7-e5 2. Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 3. Bf1-c4 Ng8-f6 4. Nf3-g5 d7-d5 5. e4xd5 Nf6xd5 6. Ng5xf7 Ke8xf7 7. Qd1-f3 Kf7-g8 8. Bc4xd5 Bc8-e6 9. Bd5xe6 1-0
or variations which involve a white knight and bishop attacking the weak pawn at f7. Every time I try ...[text shortened]... terly. At best I've managed to escape only losing a rook, at worse I'm checkmated.
Advice?
24 Dec 08
Originally posted by lepustimidusAfter white plays Bc4, Black can play Bc5 instead of Nf6. White cannot play Ng5 immediately because the queen is controlling the square. After White plays his next move, Black can develop his knight to f6 since Black will castle on the next move, even if White plays Ng5. Here is an example.
Sorry, for some reason the content didn't post.
I keep getting nailed by this when playing black.
1. e2-e4 e7-e5 2. Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 3. Bf1-c4 Ng8-f6 4. Nf3-g5 d7-d5 5. e4xd5 Nf6xd5 6. Ng5xf7 Ke8xf7 7. Qd1-f3 Kf7-g8 8. Bc4xd5 Bc8-e6 9. Bd5xe6 1-0
or variations which involve a white knight and bishop attacking the weak pawn at f7. Every time I try ...[text shortened]... terly. At best I've managed to escape only losing a rook, at worse I'm checkmated.
Advice?
24 Dec 08
3 edits
Originally posted by AximiliBc5 is a fine alternative to Nf6, but it is not better. It is the Guico Piano (sp?) as opposed to the "two knights." I believe that Nf6 is considered slightly better on the whole, although it's more risky. Some people call Nf6 the "two knights attack" rather than the "two knights defense" even though it is played by black because Nf6 in the Italian game is more of a counter-attack than a defense.
After white plays Bc4, Black can play Bc5 instead of Nf6. White cannot play Ng5 immediately because the queen is controlling the square. After White plays his next move, Black can develop his knight to f6 since Black will castle on the next move, even if White plays Ng5. Here is an example.
[pgn]1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.d3 Nf6 5.Ng5 O-O[/pgn]
I guess though that if you don't know how to handle 4. Ng5, then 3. ... Bc5 is a fine alternative until you learn how to do so.
If you do play Nf6 as black on move 3, you probably have to be willing to either sac a pawn (i.e., 5. ... Na5) or really mix it up in the middle of the board by subjecting yourself to a fried liver attack or playing the Traxler.
Either way, for a relative beginner, you might be right that 3. ... Bc5 is a smarter play.
Personally, I used to play the Italian exclusively as white against 1. ... e5, but I've mostly stopped because of 3. ... Nf6. 3. ... Bc5 4. 0-0 gives me a nice, comfortable position as white that I would be happy to play any time.