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  1. 10 Sep '08 18:26 / 1 edit
    does anyone know of any resources that can help one do at least a proficient analysis, what i mean is the technique, how is it done? the only resource that i have at present is fritz which i sometimes use to check my games afterward, the problem is that i really do not understand chess engines or the moves they make, all they can really do is give a list of alternatives that may be played at each point of movement, and being a human, yes i know its a surprise, they make no sense mostly, i just wondered if there was some other criteria, you know, some methodology that helps one do analysis. Cinco, a 2100+ player on this site had promised to help me in this regard, but he is far too busy at present with tournaments and stuff and i don't want to hassle him, so any advice, lists of how you do it, any resources on the net would be most appreciated - regards Robert.
  2. 10 Sep '08 18:36
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    does anyone know of any resources that can help one do at least a proficient analysis, what i mean is the technique, how is it done? the only resource that i have at present is fritz which i sometimes use to check my games afterward, the problem is that i really do not understand chess engines or the moves they make, all they can really do is give a ...[text shortened]... e, lists of how you do it, any resources on the net would be most appreciated - regards Robert.
    I'm just starting to read Think like a Grandmaster by Kotov. This is the book for you.

    The Art of the Middle Game by Keres and Kotov contains deep analysis by Keres which will be ideally suited to correspondence players as it deals with analysis during adjourned OTB games.
  3. 10 Sep '08 18:49
    I thought you were the Bangiev man Robbie? If you are using his technique to learn/study, presumably it can be used to 'reverse engineer' your games?!

    Otherwise, there are no quick fixes for this - as you have stated, engines such as Fritz are pretty much only useful for blunder checking (below a certain level).

    What do I do? Well, after a game I enter it into ChessBase with Fritz9 running to provide the blunder check. Then I use the RR faciltiy-this tells me where we diverged from previously played theory, and points me quickly to other games played in the variation.

    As I note the time taken after each move, I will try to recollect why i took so long over certain moves (these are often, but not always, the key points in a game). Also, usually there are points in a game where we know at the time that crucial decisions are being taken, or where we are aware that we're not quite sure what to do. Move the pieces around in analysis and see if a different plan/move order works better.

    Try to go over the game with a strong player at your club/or post them here and ask for help (and listen to the advice you're given!).

    Hope this helps, but I'm sure others will have more ideas, particularly web-based options for analysis : )
  4. 10 Sep '08 19:21 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    does anyone know of any resources that can help one do at least a proficient analysis, what i mean is the technique, how is it done? the only resource that i have at present is fritz which i sometimes use to check my games afterward, the problem is that i really do not understand chess engines or the moves they make, all they can really do is give a e, lists of how you do it, any resources on the net would be most appreciated - regards Robert.
    Hi Robbie, although I haven't read any books on analysis, I've heard of the Kotov book already mentioned, and one called "The Inner Game of Chess", by Andrew Soltis.

    But if you want something shorter and online, you might try these two Heisman articles:

    http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman12.pdf

    http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman14.pdf



    BTW, here's Dan's Novice Nook page where you can see all of the NN articles that he's written:

    http://danheisman.home.comcast.net/~danheisman/Articles/Novice_Nook_Links.htm



    P.S. The info above is pretty much only for analyzing while playing a game. Here's a Heisman article about using the computer to improve. It has a section in it describing how Dan analyzes an already played game using Fritz:

    http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman25.pdf
  5. 10 Sep '08 20:38
    Karpov's 7 step method.
  6. 10 Sep '08 20:51
    Originally posted by petrovitch
    Karpov's 7 step method.
    Details, please?
  7. 10 Sep '08 21:14
    How to Think: Karpov's Method



    We develop a plan in four steps:

    1. Appraise the Board :: APPRAISAL
    2. Establish Objectives :: OBJECTIVES
    3. Formulate Ideas Behind Plan :: FORMULATION
    4. Verify Plan :: VERIFICATION

    Make a piece-by-piece comparison of your pieces and their counter-parts about once every ten moves.

    Find your weakest piece and find a way to improve it.

    Karpov says we should ask ourselves seven questions before each move:

    1. What is the material imbalance in this position?
    2. Are there any immediate threats?
    3. What about the safety of the kings?
    4. Does the pawn structure reveal any strengths or weaknesses?
    5. Who controls the center?
    6. Are there any open lines to support the movement of pieces?
    7. Can the position of the pieces be improved?




    References

    Bellin, R. et. al. (1985). Test Your Positional Play.
    New Jersey: Macmillan Distribution Center.

    Schwartzman, G. (2005). Internet Chess Academy.
    Retrieved: June 4, 2007, from Internet Chess Academy.
    Web site: http://www.totalchess.com
  8. 10 Sep '08 21:19
    I'd go for experience.
    It's hard to tell people how to imagine and calculate.
    Setting up puzzles on a board and solving them helps greatly,
    as does playing OTB games.

    We all think differently.
    For instance: I say to you think of two dice showing the No.7.

    Some will 'see' 6 + 1
    Other's will 'see' 5 +2
    Other's will 'see' 4+3

    (Fat Lady will see 5 + 4 but he is daft)

    Some will see two white dice, others one red and one white.

    We all get the correct answer but we all see it differently.
    Practise and study. Practise and study.
    There is no short cut - this has to be done.

    If you find a book that helps and is in tune with you then great.
    I found Kotov's book a waste of time.
    I do not select candidate moves and go along a tree.
  9. 10 Sep '08 21:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    does anyone know of any resources that can help one do at least a proficient analysis, what i mean is the technique, how is it done? the only resource that i have at present is fritz which i sometimes use to check my games afterward, the problem is that i really do not understand chess engines or the moves they make, all they can really do is give a e, lists of how you do it, any resources on the net would be most appreciated - regards Robert.
    If I'm getting this right, you're asking about post-game analysis rather than in-game analysis. So I'll skip any ideas about books. (If I wouldn't be able to stop myself, I'd say don't bother with kotov's book, it's approach is too stiff and not realistic.)

    What you should do first is throw fritz away and get Rybka. I know this is hard to believe for people with no experience with rybka, but it's the most "uncomputerish" engine I've seen so far. you'll most of the time get what she aims for. If there's a post, she'll go for it, if not, she'll try to create, if there's an open file, she'll grab it, if not, she'll open files, if she absolutely can't, she won't trade knights, etc. It's sort of like capablanca, it's pretty straightforward actually, but unbelievably strong.
    (200+ elo stronger than fritz, at least.) (I hope I could explain. I'm not telling neither capablanca or rybka are straightforward players of course, but there's something in their styles that 'makes things look easy.'

    2.assuming you're using the fritz interface, use "infinite analysis" mode instad of "full analysis", and do the analysis interactively. always trying why not this, why not that, and try to find the refutations. and don't let too many branches make the analysis too complicated. try to stick with 2 or three alternatives in the first move, and don't deviate much further in their lines. Most of the time (with Rybka at least), you will understand the plans behind moves.

    hope this helps.
  10. 10 Sep '08 21:45 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    I found Kotov's book a waste of time.
    I do not select candidate moves and go along a tree.
    You must have seen the quote from Grandmaster Anatoly Lein: "I don't think like a tree--do you think like a tree?"


    P.S. - It's the introductory quote from Chapter 1 of Jonathan Tisdall's "Improve Your Chess Now".
  11. 10 Sep '08 21:58 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    We all think differently. We all get the correct answer but we all see it differently.
    We don't all get the correct answer.
  12. 10 Sep '08 22:13 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by diskamyl
    If I'm getting this right, you're asking about post-game analysis rather than in-game analysis. So I'll skip any ideas about books. (If I wouldn't be able to stop myself, I'd say don't bother with kotov's book, it's approach is too stiff and not realistic.)

    What you should do first is throw fritz away and get Rybka. I know this is hard to believe for peo u will understand the plans behind moves.

    hope this helps.
    my apologies, i should have made it more clear, yes my original intention was post game analysis, so far comments have been very helpful, thanks, what is RR facility mentioned by street fighter, and yes I am a Bangiev man, at this very moment I am trying out his repertoire for black based on 1.g6, 2.Bg7 and 3.c5 for anything and everything that white has to offer, yes yes, with the exception of 1.b3 and 1.b4, what i like is when they take the center and suddenly find out that its not really for the taking, well not yet anyway, but i want to learn to swim before i can butterfly stroke, so thanks guys for excellent suggestions - regards Robert.
  13. 10 Sep '08 22:16
    Originally posted by Mad Rook
    You must have seen the quote from Grandmaster Anatoly Lein: "I don't think like a tree--do you think like a tree?"


    P.S. - It's the introductory quote from Chapter 1 of Jonathan Tisdall's "Improve Your Chess Now".
    Not read that one - looks like a wee dig at Kotov's book.

    Which worked for some. I know players who love it and
    I know players who hate it.
  14. 10 Sep '08 22:29
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    Not read that one - looks like a wee dig at Kotov's book.

    Which worked for some. I know players who love it and
    I know players who hate it.
    Apparently, in Chapt 1 of Tisdall's book, he makes a detailed study of Kotov's fabled "Tree of Analysis".

    Silman's review of his book if you're interested:

    http://www.jeremysilman.com/book_reviews_js/js_improve_your_chess_now.html
  15. 10 Sep '08 22:33
    Originally posted by Mad Rook
    Apparently, in Chapt 1 of Tisdall's book, he makes a detailed study of Kotov's fabled "Tree of Analysis".

    Silman's review of his book if you're interested:

    http://www.jeremysilman.com/book_reviews_js/js_improve_your_chess_now.html
    I didn't read it, but skimmed thorugh the first chapter, and I think Tisdall's book is a very good improvement over Kotov's. But it's mainly for tactical analysis I suppose.