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  1. 02 Aug '14 19:18
    In blitz, the knight is stronger than the bishop.
    - Vlastmil Hort


    Hello.

    I am using this point value system for classical time controls (at least one hour per player):

    Pawn = 1
    Knight = 3.25
    Bishop = 3.25
    Rook = 5
    Queen = 9.5
    Bishop pair = +0.5

    But as we all know, the Knight gets a little bit stronger in Rapid (from 15 minutes to 60 minutes per player), and it perhaps gets even more powerful in Blitz (from 3 minutes to 15 minutes per player).

    My two questions are:
    - How many centipawns does the Knight gain in Rapid?
    - How many centipawns does the Knight gain in Blitz?

    I need as many estimations as possible. And try to be as precise as possible (even if the true uncertainty is big).

    Thanks in advance for your answers.
  2. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    02 Aug '14 21:11 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Marc Benford
    In blitz, the knight is stronger than the bishop.
    - Vlastmil Hort


    Hello.

    I am using this point value system for classical time controls (at least one hour per player):

    Pawn = 1
    Knight = 3.25
    Bishop = 3.25
    Rook = 5
    Queen = 9.5
    Bishop pair = +0.5

    But as we all know, the Knight gets a little bit stronger in Rapid (from 15 m ...[text shortened]... recise as possible (even if the true uncertainty is big).

    Thanks in advance for your answers.
    I would say about 0.25 cents. It could be better quantized if you took a few thousand blitz games and checked out how well the knight helped the overall games. Totally not sure how you would go about that, however.
  3. 03 Aug '14 01:46
    In blitz (I suppose in normal play as well but it's in Blitz I notice it)
    I've found the Knight is the worst defender amongst the pieces.

    If forced to moved it cannot move and still defend whatever it was defending.
    A King, Queen, Rook and Bishop can all move and still defend what
    it was originally defending. A Knight cannot.

    Don't use Knights to defend things, (pawns and squares etc...) use them
    in blitz to do sneaky forking things.
  4. Subscriber Marinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    03 Aug '14 13:13
    I think it's really dependent on the position. The Two bishops are held up as golden in an ending with an open center, but if you have a knight outpost on a central square the knight can still dominate one of those bishops. The pawn structure really gives value to pieces in the end game. Why not assign values to these structures also?
  5. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    03 Aug '14 16:18
    “If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone, somewhere is making a penny.”


    ― Steven Wright
  6. 10 Aug '14 14:08
    I would say about 0.25 cents.
    Thanks! But does your estimation concern Rapid or Blitz?

    It could be better quantized if you took a few thousand blitz games and checked out how well the knight helped the overall games. Totally not sure how you would go about that, however.
    That's a very good idea, but unfortunately I have no idea how to do that either.

    I think it's really dependent on the position.
    Not really. The value of a Knight depends on the position, yes. But what I'm talking about here is the average value of the Knight, which by definition has nothing to do with one particular position.



    I would like more estimations please.
  7. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    10 Aug '14 22:32 / 2 edits
    I think it's really dependent on the position.
    Not really. The value of a Knight depends on the position, yes. But what I'm talking about here is the average value of the Knight, which by definition has nothing to do with one particular position.



    I would like more estimations please.[/b]
    Your definition is not really correct. The average value of the knight has something to do with every particular position, averaged out.

    To suggest that it has nothing to do with one particular position would only be true if you were excluding that position from the group of positions from which you calculate your average. Perhaps "very little" would be better than "nothing".

    This is semantic, of course. I believe that it would be more correct to say that the average value of the knight has little applicable use in any one posiiton, which is another way of saying that the value of the knight in any particular context depends on the position, not on a calculated average value.

    It may well be that Marinkatomb did not answer the question you asked, but the value of a knight really does depend on the position. An average has some nominal value for those looking to simplify difficult concepts, but a player evaluating a concrete position based on averages will struggle.
  8. 16 Aug '14 00:18
    After thinking about it for a while, I believe the Knight gets stronger by approximately:

    • 1/8 of a pawn in Rapid
    • 1/4 of a pawn in Blitz
    • 3/8 of a pawn in Bullet


    Do you think these values are good estimations? If not, please tell me what your own estimations would be.