15 Dec 04
[Event "Ajedrez21"]
[Site "www.ajedrez21.com"]
[Date "2004.12.15"]
[White "Alopinto"]
[Black "betomax"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2143"]
[BlackElo "2109"]
[TimeControl "5/0"]
1. e2-e4 Ng8-f6 2. Nb1-c3 d7-d5 3. e4-e5 Nf6-d7 4. e5-e6 f7xe6 5. d2-d4 Nd7-f6
6. Bc1-f4 Nb8-c6 7. Bf1-b5 Bc8-d7 8. Bb5xc6 Bd7xc6 9. Ng1-f3 g7-g6 10. h2-h4
Bf8-g7 11. Bf4-e5 Rh8-f8 12. Nf3-g5 Bc6-d7 13. Qd1-d2 h7-h6 14. Ng5-f3 Ke8-f7 15.
O-O-O c7-c5 16. d4xc5 b7-b6 17. c5-c6 Bd7xc6 18. Nf3-d4 Bc6-d7 19. f2-f3 Ra8-c8
20. g2-g4 Rc8xc3 21. b2xc3 Bd7-a4 22. Qd2-d3 Rf8-h8 23. h4-h5 g6xh5 24. g4xh5
Ba4-d7 25. Qd3-g6 Kf7-f8 26. Rh1-g1 Rh8-g8 27. Be5xf6 e7xf6 28. f3-f4 e6-e5 29.
f4xe5 f6xe5 30. Rd1-f1 Kf8-e7 31. Rf1-f7 Ke7-e8 32. Rf7xg7 1-0
16 Dec 04
Originally posted by SirLoseALotNo, I meant exactly that: How not to play against the Alekhine.
Uhm...seems like you did pretty well.Maybe you meant 'how not to play the alekhine' 🙂
I know nothing about the theory as White with this line :-( Problem is, I can't help playing like this against the Alekhine and it is a vice because there are more solid ways of handling this opening...
The sac at e6 is just too risky and it is not me (i.e., I don't like playing like that...)
16 Dec 04
Originally posted by AlopintoNot sure if it's all that risky.I play the Alekhine myself,I don't think many Alekhine players like that line.It's white's best option,IMO.Personally,I avoid it like the plague.
No, I meant exactly that: How not to play against the Alekhine.
I know nothing about the theory as White with this line :-( Problem is, I can't help playing like this against the Alekhine and it is a vice because there are more solid ways of handling this opening...
The sac at e6 is just too risky and it is not me (i.e., I don't like playing like that...)
16 Dec 04
Originally posted by SirLoseALot' ...It's white's best option,IMO.Personally,I avoid it like the plague. '
Not sure if it's all that risky.I play the Alekhine myself,I don't think many Alekhine players like that line.It's white's best option,IMO.Personally,I avoid it like the plague.
Coming from an Alekhine expert this compliment is highly valued and thanked. Psychologically is very upsetting for me to play a pawn down even if Black's game is somewhat cramped. I need to learn more theory (if there is any) from this line.
Now that I got you interested where did we depart from the 'book'? Have any examples with this line that I can see?
16 Dec 04
Originally posted by Fritz8ComputerLet's see:
Instead of 4. e6, you could have played f4, Nxd5, d4 or Nf3.
4.f4 is not to my taste but might be a good move [ For me to play a move I have to like it ]
4.Nxd5 exchanges pieces with equality so it is not fun [ Good move though ]
4.d4 I don't play that variation against the French
4.Nf3 could be interesting...
However, none of these beat the Spielmann gambit with 4.e6 and I am looking for something exotic in earlier moves for White
16 Dec 04
Originally posted by AlopintoI'm no expert,I don't even play it very well.I just like it,very provocative 🙂
' ...It's white's best option,IMO.Personally,I avoid it like the plague. '
Coming from an Alekhine expert this compliment is highly valued and thanked. Psychologically is very upsetting for me to play a pawn down even if Black's game is somewhat cramped. I need to learn more theory (if there is any) from this line.
Now that I got you interested where did we depart from the 'book'? Have any examples with this line that I can see?
Not too much theory on it,it seems to be mostly uncharted territory.Black deviated with 5...,Nf6,allthough it has been played,but theory gives it a ? It isn't even mentioned in Nigel Davies' book on the Alekhine!
'Normal' 5th moves are c5 and g6.Check out these games:
Bobkov-Sokolov,correspondense game 1960
Hector-Sergeev,Berlin 1995
Hector-Maus,Copenhagen 1990
16 Dec 04
Originally posted by SirLoseALotAre those from Davies book? I have been meaning to make a copy of that chapter of the Alekhine. I think that perhaps I should use that variation [ Saw the games by Hector and decided to give it a shot ]
I'm no expert,I don't even play it very well.I just like it,very provocative 🙂
Not too much theory on it,it seems to be mostly uncharted territory.Black deviated with 5...,Nf6,allthough it has been played,but theory gives it a ? It isn't even mentioned in Nigel Davies' book on the Alekhine!
'Normal' 5th moves are c5 and g6.Check out these game ...[text shortened]... obkov-Sokolov,correspondense game 1960
Hector-Sergeev,Berlin 1995
Hector-Maus,Copenhagen 1990
Thank you very much for the games
16 Dec 04
Originally posted by AlopintoYes,those 3 games are mentioned in Davies' book.Also,if you need any info on the Alekhine,pay Kirk a visit:
Are those from Davies book? I have been meaning to make a copy of that chapter of the Alekhine. I think that perhaps I should use that variation [ Saw the games by Hector and decided to give it a shot ]
Thank you very much for the games
http://www.geocities.com/alekhine_gotw/
Lots of theory,downloadable database of high class alekhine games,and if that's not enough,there's also a forum where you can ask any question.
17 Dec 04
Originally posted by SirLoseALotThe thing, my friend, is that I take the White side against that defense and I would be lost with Black. I will check the forum to see if there is anything interesting that I can use to play as White.
Yes,those 3 games are mentioned in Davies' book.Also,if you need any info on the Alekhine,pay Kirk a visit:
http://www.geocities.com/alekhine_gotw/
Lots of theory,downloadable database of high class alekhine games,and if that's not enough,there's also a forum where you can ask any question.
What other games are mentioned by Davies in his book in the line we are discussing?
There is one line in the Alekhine that impressed me a lot:
1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ng8!?
One may argue that Black has wasted a tempo but that's not the case as the pieces developed are exactly the same and the pawn at e5 is expossed. Am I being a lunatic or is this line sound?
17 Dec 04
1 edit
Originally posted by AlopintoWhy is it a problem that you only play the white side?The games are valuable to both sides.And if you read the forum,you can see which lines to avoid,and which ones to aim for.In chess,wether you play an opening,or face it,the same information applies (weird sentence,but you'll understand what I mean 🙂 ).
The thing, my friend, is that I take the White side against that defense and I would be lost with Black. I will check the forum to see if there is anything interesting that I can use to play as White.
What other games are mentioned by ...[text shortened]... wn at e5 is expossed. Am I being a lunatic or is this line sound?
I don't know about that 2...,Ng8,I've seen it in some book,can't remember which one.Isn't that the mokelele variation?Anyway,Davies makes no mention of it.It sure looks strange,then again,I believe one can play just about anything,so why not this 🙂
17 Dec 04
Originally posted by SirLoseALot'Why is it a problem that you only play the white side?'
Why is it a problem that you only play the white side?The games are valuable to both sides.And if you read the forum,you can see which lines to avoid,and which ones to aim for.In chess,wether you play an opening,or face it,the same information applies (weird sentence,but you'll understand what I mean 🙂 ).
I don't know about that 2...,Ng8,I've seen ...[text shortened]... t.It sure looks strange,then again,I believe one can play just about anything,so why not this 🙂
It is no probem. It is the fact that I would be mistreating the opening badly 🙁 and playing on thin general grounds instead of sound theoretical ideas. I have toyed with the idea of going to Bizarro world and playing what people play against me with Black and try openings like the Latvian, the elephan gambit, the Alekhine, the Pirc, etc. How would I benefit from that? Perhaps I would double the pleasure! My problem is that I tend to be very dogmatic with my theory... But maybe I will take you on that suggestion and essay the Alekhine some day [ I have about a million correspondence games going in other websites 🙁 ]
17 Dec 04
Originally posted by AlopintoWell,I think there's no better way to learn how to play against a particular opening,than to play it yourself.
'Why is it a problem that you only play the white side?'
It is no probem. It is the fact that I would be mistreating the opening badly 🙁 and playing on thin general grounds instead of sound theoretical ideas. I have toyed with the idea of going to Bizarro world and playing what people play against me with Black and try openings like the Latvian, the ...[text shortened]... the Alekhine some day [ I have about a million correspondence games going in other websites 🙁 ]
And it can indeed be fun in 'Mondo Bizarro' 😀