In blitz games, I see that sometimes (2...f6) I usually assume it's a beginner (and it usually is) and play Nxe5 without thinking about it and then after fxe5, play Qh5+ and usually secure a big attack and/or huge material advantage very quickly.
It seems that after 1 d4 d5 2. f6 Qe7, black would have some counterplay. For example, 3. Qh5+ g3 4. Nxg3 hxg3 4. Qxh8 Qxd4+, white is up the exchange and a pawn, but black as a strongly developed queen and a tempo to try and launch an attack down the middle. Still, it seems to me that 2...f6 is over-all a lousy move for black and I've yet to see it from a strong player.
Originally posted by sh76 It seems that after 1 d4 d5 2. f6 Qe7, black would have some counterplay. For example, 3. Qh5+ g3 4. Nxg3 hxg3 4. Qxh8 Qxd4+, white is up the exchange and a pawn, but black as a strongly developed queen and a tempo to try and launch an attack down the middle. Still, it seems to me that 2...f6 is over-all a lousy move for black and I've yet to see it from a strong player.[/b]
Did you mean after 1.e4 e5, or have you started talking about a different opening? Also, your notation seems to be all messed up. It's hard for black to play g3 and white to play f6 so early in the game. 😉
Edit - Assuming you meant 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Qh5+, White's 4.Qh5+ is pretty much a big blunder and gives the win to Black. Also, after 4...g6 5.Nxg6, Black's 5...hxg6 is a counter blunder that gives the win back to White. Black instead should play 5...Qxe4+!
And yeah, 2...f6 isn't a good move, no doubt about it.
i thought wen u meant sacking a knight for two pawns, u were referring to halloween's gambit
then again, halloween's gambit is sacking a knight for 1 pawn
sounds unsound?
look at these games
Game 4916964and
Game 4893984
the second game was his stuff up but i gain the material back anyways
also, i'm not that good using halloweens but if u want to try it, try playing against dejection whilst him using it. with it, he's quite strong
After 12. Qf7+, couldn't black play 12... Kd8 instead of 12... Qxf7? Then black can trade off the queens without the King and Knight fork. After that, white has a lead in development and black can't castle in exchange for 2 points down. Without queens on the board, it doesn't seem like it's a won position for white.
As it is, after 12...Qxf7, white wins back the knight and a rook to boot for the pawn and is up by 5 points and has a won game.
After 12. Qf7+, couldn't black play 12... Kd8 instead of 12... Qxf7? Then black can trade off the queens without the King and Knight fork. After that, white has a lead in development and black can't castle in exchange for 2 points down. Without queens on the board, it doesn't seem like it's a won position for white.
As it is, after 12.. ...[text shortened]... ns back the knight and a rook to boot for the pawn and is up by 5 points and has a won game.
After 12.Qf7+, Black is in serious trouble regardless of his move. Best for Black is 12...Kd8, but it's not much better than 12...Qxf7. After 12...Kd8, White can then play 13.Bg5!, and Black has no good responses. (For example, if 13...Qxg5, then 14.Qf8#.)
Originally posted by Mad Rook After 12.Qf7+, Black is in serious trouble regardless of his move. Best for Black is 12...Kd8, but it's not much better than 12...Qxf7. After 12...Kd8, White can then play 13.Bg5!, and Black has no good responses. (For example, if 13...Qxg5, then 14.Qf8#.)
exactly
also did anyone look at the second game?
looking at the moves again now i think there wasnt any real stuff up
his queen was kinda stuffed either way
Originally posted by onehandgann and that is common sac ....
Indeed. Greco wrote about it 400 years ago. Still - nice to play it out if you get the chance and doubly nice to be able to find it for yourself if you're not aware of the history.
After the moves:
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f6? 3. Nxe5 Qe7 4. Nf3 Qxe4+ 5. Be2 += White is ahead in development and threatening to gain more time attacking the Black Queen.
Bobby Fischer lost a simul game to 2...f6. His opponent was
a very good local player who Fischer thought, after 2..f6, was a duffer.
Fischer took a few liabilities and lost.
If you cannot find the score and want to see it, I'll dig out
the game and post it.
I met it often in simuls. I found the best reply that suits me is
3.Bc4 (development) - 2...f6 soon returns to haunt them.
Originally posted by banx99 i thought wen u meant sacking a knight for two pawns, u were referring to halloween's gambit
then again, halloween's gambit is sacking a knight for 1 pawn
sounds unsound?
look at these games
Game 4916964and
Game 4893984
the second game was his stuff up but i gain the material back anyways
also, i'm not that good using halloweens but if ...[text shortened]... ant to try it, try playing against dejection whilst him using it. with it, he's quite strong
Wow, this seems pretty cool. However, do you know of a sight or video that explanes it? I played a coulple games, and was unable to exploit the development advantage.
In one of my earliest games I played Damiano's Defense and managed to extract a win. I had a hell of a time trying to develop my pieces though - definitely not a good opening at any level.
Originally posted by clandarkfire Wow, this seems pretty cool. However, do you know of a sight or video that explanes it? I played a coulple games, and was unable to exploit the development advantage.
jst go onto wiki and search halloweens gambit and ull eventually find a link at the bottom of it to a few good sites
I sacked my knight in this game for two pawns
20 May '08 15:32
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