Ugh - OK I think using the threat of Greenpawns mate, setting up a stalemate position with move 10 (Kf6), white can put black in zugzwang and force black to give up the a or d pawns. The N sits on b3 and stops the a and b pawns, the c2 pawn holds the d pawn. I keep going to show black's tricky stunt at move 14, white needs the check with the pawn to avoid the draw. Anyone see a problem with this one?
Promoting to queen must be better than promoting to knight. Mustn't it? Just wondering if Reinfeld was trying to invent a position involving under-promoting in order to make a point, and got it slightly wrong.
Has anybody here had a position in an actual game where it was better to under-promote? I don't think I ever have.
Originally posted by toeternitoeI thought, then thought again, and now I have nothing 😞
Was working in Reinfeld's 1001 winning sacs and combo's.Got this.
White to move
[fen]5rr1/pp1b1P1p/5Q2/3p3k/5K2/8/2P3P1/8 w - - 0 1[/fen]
After the combination you get this position.
Black to move
[fen]8/pp1N3p/8/3p4/5K1k/8/2P3P1/8 b - - 0 3[/fen]
Knight for 2 pawns,that wins.Right?
But white only has 2 pawns left making me doubt the win.So I tr 3 Kf6 16. Kh4 Ke5 17. Kh5 Kf4 18. Na2 Kg3[/pgn]
Can it be won?
toet.
Originally posted by Foldererhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/aug/07/michael-adams-british-championship
Promoting to queen must be better than promoting to knight. Mustn't it? Just wondering if Reinfeld was trying to invent a position involving under-promoting in order to make a point, and got it slightly wrong.
Has anybody here had a position in an actual game where it was better to under-promote? I don't think I ever have.
Certainly not my game but look at the game at the top of this article.
In the solution Reinfeld says
"after 1.PxR/Q RxQch black can still fight on.So: 1.PxR/N! etc..."
He clearly considers the knight ending a (simple) win.I think he didn't investigate it properly.
Or it is a trivial win and we all need to hit the endgame books
I still can't do better than draw.I give up.If I ever get this position I'll offer a draw 😛
toet.
Originally posted by toeternitoeWe might need to hit the endgame books, but not because of this thread. I finally decided to sic my two best engines on this position, and they're struggling to find a winning line. It does look like the queen promotion line is more promising (up to 3 pawns eval), but even it kind of peters out after a while. Eventually, I can't find an eval over around 1.5, which doesn't seem to be clearly winning to me. (Hoping this post will send greenpawn off on another of his anti-box rants. 🙂 )
In the solution Reinfeld says
"after 1.PxR/Q RxQch black can still fight on.So: 1.PxR/N! etc..."
He clearly considers the knight ending a (simple) win.I think he didn't investigate it properly.
Or it is a trivial win and we all need to hit the endgame books
I still can't do better than draw.I give up.If I ever get this position I'll offer a draw 😛
toet.