Interesting position (Reinfeld)

Ugh - OK I think using the threat of Greenpawns mate, setting up a stalemate position with move 10 (Kf6), white can put black in zugzwang and force black to give up the a or d pawns. The N sits on b3 and stops the a and b pawns, the c2 pawn holds the d pawn. I keep going to show black's tricky stunt at move 14, white needs the check with the pawn to avoid the draw. Anyone see a problem with this one?

Ah, right - the black king goes to g7 on move 9. I also keep helping white with tempo wasting pawn moves. Sorry, back to the drawing board....

Promoting to queen must be better than promoting to knight. Mustn't it? Just wondering if Reinfeld was trying to invent a position involving under-promoting in order to make a point, and got it slightly wrong.

Has anybody here had a position in an actual game where it was better to under-promote? I don't think I ever have.

Originally posted by toeternitoe
Was working in Reinfeld's 1001 winning sacs and combo's.Got this.
White to move
[fen]5rr1/pp1b1P1p/5Q2/3p3k/5K2/8/2P3P1/8 w - - 0 1[/fen]

After the combination you get this position.
Black to move
[fen]8/pp1N3p/8/3p4/5K1k/8/2P3P1/8 b - - 0 3[/fen]
Knight for 2 pawns,that wins.Right?
But white only has 2 pawns left making me doubt the win.So I tr 3 Kf6 16. Kh4 Ke5 17. Kh5 Kf4 18. Na2 Kg3[/pgn]

Can it be won?

toet.

I thought, then thought again, and now I have nothing 😞

Originally posted by Folderer
Promoting to queen must be better than promoting to knight. Mustn't it? Just wondering if Reinfeld was trying to invent a position involving under-promoting in order to make a point, and got it slightly wrong.

Has anybody here had a position in an actual game where it was better to under-promote? I don't think I ever have.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/aug/07/michael-adams-british-championship

Certainly not my game but look at the game at the top of this article.

In the solution Reinfeld says
"after 1.PxR/Q RxQch black can still fight on.So: 1.PxR/N! etc..."

He clearly considers the knight ending a (simple) win.I think he didn't investigate it properly.
Or it is a trivial win and we all need to hit the endgame books

I still can't do better than draw.I give up.If I ever get this position I'll offer a draw 😛

toet.

Originally posted by Habeascorp
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/aug/07/michael-adams-british-championship

Certainly not my game but look at the game at the top of this article.

Sweet!

wish I could reach such a position.And then find the winning moves of course 🙂

toet.

Originally posted by toeternitoe
In the solution Reinfeld says
"after 1.PxR/Q RxQch black can still fight on.So: 1.PxR/N! etc..."

He clearly considers the knight ending a (simple) win.I think he didn't investigate it properly.
Or it is a trivial win and we all need to hit the endgame books

I still can't do better than draw.I give up.If I ever get this position I'll offer a draw 😛

toet.

We might need to hit the endgame books, but not because of this thread. I finally decided to sic my two best engines on this position, and they're struggling to find a winning line. It does look like the queen promotion line is more promising (up to 3 pawns eval), but even it kind of peters out after a while. Eventually, I can't find an eval over around 1.5, which doesn't seem to be clearly winning to me. (Hoping this post will send greenpawn off on another of his anti-box rants. 🙂 )

I have to say that this has been one of my favorite threads recently! Rec'd, simply because this did not yield a simple or obvious answer within an hour of the initial post!

Paul

Originally posted by Mad Rook
(Hoping this post will send greenpawn off on another of his anti-box rants. 🙂 )

Seems to have failed.I do like to read a good rant.Anything else you can get him,or someone else,to rant about?

toet.