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Is Draw in This Position Possible??

Standard memberjcmessy
Only Chess 09 Jul '12 11:37
  1. Standard memberjcmessy
    Joined
    26 Aug '11
    Moves
    10242
    09 Jul '12 11:371 edit
    [Event "Challenge"] [Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"]
    [Date "2012.03.21"] [EndDate "2012.03.24"]
    [White "jcmessy"] [Black "darklore"]
    [WhiteRating "1965"] [BlackRating "1892"]
    [WhiteElo "1965"] [BlackElo "1892"]
    [Result "?"] Game 9159004

    White to move. Can White salvage a Draw??
    Anyone??

    This game is already finished to avoid confusion..



    Posted by: Jcmessy (User 658847)
    "Rookies Chess Club">>(Club 317)
  2. Subscribergreenpawn34
    e4
    Joined
    06 May '08
    Moves
    42492
    09 Jul '12 12:11
    Hi.

    I don't know about the posted position (the wrong guy for that one.)

    But later on this appeared.


    That is a tough Black win. (if indeed it is one.)
    Later on White moved the h-pawn. I'm thinking if you leave
    the pawn alone and keep the King tucked up that would be a
    hard fortress to crack.
    (also that pawn move re-set the counting up to 50.)

    Endgame Ernie has gone fishing with The Duck so no help from him.
  3. Subscribergreenpawn34
    e4
    Joined
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    Moves
    42492
    09 Jul '12 12:335 edits
    Hello Again.

    Found this final position from K. Georgieve - P.Peev Bulgarian Champs 1980.


    Black had tried a few ways to get in but gave up. ½ - ½

    The game was in Informator 1980.

    However.....

    Experience tells me that all is never that black & white.
    We do not know if Black was in Time Troube, or all he needed was a draw
    to clinch a prize or get a norm etc (the norm may not apply here but does often
    explain 'why did this happen' in games played where we do know all the background.)

    Anand himself got tripped up by flicking through an Informator and memory
    storing a game which unknown to him was a pre-arranged agreed draw so
    the players were messing about.
    Anand followed it, lost a piece in 6 moves and resigned.

    But it does look like a draw unless there is some fancy zuggers hiding in there.
    Get one of the lads with a tablebase to run over it.

    (I'm thinking when Ernie gets back from fishing he will be covering
    the Rook v Queen fortress in his next bloggy bit.)
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
    24 Jan '11
    Moves
    13644
    09 Jul '12 12:35
    Originally posted by jcmessy
    [Event "Challenge"] [Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"]
    [Date "2012.03.21"] [EndDate "2012.03.24"]
    [White "jcmessy"] [Black "darklore"]
    [WhiteRating "1965"] [BlackRating "1892"]
    [WhiteElo "1965"] [BlackElo "1892"]
    [Result "?"] Game 9159004

    White to move. Can White salvage a Draw??
    Anyone??

    This game is already finished to avoid confu ...[text shortened]... messy (User 658847)
    "Rookies Chess Club">>(Club 317)
    Yes, by checking the king until the f5 pawn can be attacked.
  5. Subscribergreenpawn34
    e4
    Joined
    06 May '08
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    42492
    09 Jul '12 12:38
    Hi RJ

    You will need to drop in a PGN thingy to show us.
  6. Standard memberjcmessy
    Joined
    26 Aug '11
    Moves
    10242
    09 Jul '12 12:50
    The game went like this: 45. fxg5 hg5; 46.Kf1 Kg6; 47.Rf3 Rb2; 48. Kg2 Re2;
    49. Kf1! Ra2; 50. Kg2 Rd2; 51. Kf1 Kf6; 52. Ra3?? I should have played Re3!!
    idea is simply to blocked the black Monarch from getting the vital "e5-square", and
    it would a very hard knot for the black King to join the fight. With the black
    Monarch away and helpless, this could be a possible draw, since
    the Rook @ e3 will just go up and down controlling the "e-file". You think?__ Jcmessy.
  7. Subscribergreenpawn34
    e4
    Joined
    06 May '08
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    42492
    09 Jul '12 13:00
    Hi jcmessy

    A lot of the lads on here cannot follow analysis in their head like that.

    You are asking them to remember your moves go back to the diagram
    and play them out in their head.

    At least sprinkle the moves with 3 or 4 diagrams, especially after your 53. Re3!!

    Cheers. 🙂
  8. Standard memberjcmessy
    Joined
    26 Aug '11
    Moves
    10242
    09 Jul '12 13:271 edit
    Jcmessy vs. Darklore
    March 20, 2012
    Game 9159004

    White to move, after 51..Kf6; 52.??

    I actually played 52. Ra3?? instead of 52.Re3!! with the idea of blocking the
    black Monarch from joining the fight via "e5-square". which without the path
    would be impossible for the black to make a headway, the Rook @ e3 will just
    go up and down on the "e-file" (vertical line). You thinks?? __Jcmessy


    RHP game Game 9159004
    Posted by: Jcmessy (User 658847)
  9. t
    Standard membertomtom232
    Joined
    15 Jun '06
    Moves
    16334
    09 Jul '12 15:0519 edits
    Originally posted by jcmessy
    Jcmessy vs. Darklore
    March 20, 2012
    Game 9159004

    White to move, after 51..Kf6; 52.??

    I actually played 52. Ra3?? instead of 52.Re3!! with the idea of blocking the
    black Monarch from joining the fight via "e5-square". which without the path
    would be impossible for the black to make a headway, the Rook @ e3 will just
    go up and down o 8/4R2P/3r1p2/5K2[/fen]
    RHP game Game 9159004
    Posted by: Jcmessy (User 658847)
    phooey.
  10. t
    Standard membertomtom232
    Joined
    15 Jun '06
    Moves
    16334
    09 Jul '12 15:1111 edits
    Originally posted by jcmessy
    Jcmessy vs. Darklore
    March 20, 2012
    Game 9159004

    White to move, after 51..Kf6; 52.??

    I actually played 52. Ra3?? instead of 52.Re3!! with the idea of blocking the
    black Monarch from joining the fight via "e5-square". which without the path
    would be impossible for the black to make a headway, the Rook @ e3 will just
    go up and down o 8/4R2P/3r1p2/5K2[/fen]
    RHP game Game 9159004
    Posted by: Jcmessy (User 658847)
    Invert BoardPGNHeadersComments
  11. Standard memberjcmessy
    Joined
    26 Aug '11
    Moves
    10242
    09 Jul '12 16:25
    Below is the complete game of it.

    [Event "Challenge"] [Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"]
    [Date "2012.03.21"] [EndDate "2012.03.24"]
    [White "jcmessy"] [Black "darklore"]
    [WhiteRating "1965"] [BlackRating "1897"]
    [Result "0-1"]
    Game 9159004

    The Guy is from Northern Mariana Island. I know there is no Grandmaster
    on that Island, but sure he plays very strong on this game. That's why my
    question before is this Human strength or Machine. I mean either way i give
    my best. After all, learning in Chess is endless. 🙄

    Invert BoardPGN

    Posted by: Jcmessy (User 658847)
  12. W
    SubscriberWoltato
    Joined
    04 Jan '09
    Moves
    51411
    09 Jul '12 16:30
    I think this should have been a win for black. Looks like move 60 ra2 kind of threw the game away. Should have played rg2+.
  13. Standard memberjcmessy
    Joined
    26 Aug '11
    Moves
    10242
    09 Jul '12 16:43
    [Event "Challenge"] [Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"]
    [Date "2012.03.21"] [EndDate "2012.03.24"]
    [White "jcmessy"] [Black "darklore"]
    [WhiteRating "1965"] [BlackRating "1897"]
    [Result "0-1"]
    Game 9159004

    Woltato, You mean this Position after 60..Rg2 + huh..



    Posted by: Jcmessy (User 658847)
  14. W
    SubscriberWoltato
    Joined
    04 Jan '09
    Moves
    51411
    09 Jul '12 21:23
    yeah, or actually looking at this again re2 looks better followed by kf4. that way black will be able to get the king onto g3. if white plays Rb4 then black can Re4. obviously white can't afford to swap the rooks so would have to move his rook away.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
    24 Jan '11
    Moves
    13644
    10 Jul '12 20:21
    Originally posted by jcmessy
    Below is the complete game of it.

    [Event "Challenge"] [Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"]
    [Date "2012.03.21"] [EndDate "2012.03.24"]
    [White "jcmessy"] [Black "darklore"]
    [WhiteRating "1965"] [BlackRating "1897"]
    [Result "0-1"]
    Game 9159004

    The Guy is from Northern Mariana Island. I know there is no Grandmaster
    on that Island, but sure he pl ...[text shortened]... 3 89. Kf2g1 Kf4g3 90. Ra2a3 0-1[/pgn]
    Posted by: Jcmessy (User 658847)
    45.Ra7+! If K to back rank then 46.fxg5 hxg5 47.Ra5 attacking f5 pawn.
    or if 45...Kg6 46.Ra6+ Kh5 47.Rf6
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