Is it a blunder?

Is it a blunder if you do not know the move is a blunder? Or would you just be considered a lesser player because you do not understand why that move really sucked.

I guess the real question is if a blunder is a relative term.

@eladar said
Is it a blunder if you do not know the move is a blunder? Or would you just be considered a lesser player because you do not understand why that move really sucked.

I guess the real question is if a blunder is a relative term.

I think generally a blunder is in the eye of the beholder, however a move that immediately loses the game, or material when better moves are available takes the definition out of the grey area, and into the light.

@mchill said
I think generally a blunder is in the eye of the beholder, however a move that immediately loses the game, or material when better moves are available takes the definition out of the grey area, and into the light.

What is losing depends on the level of players.

Almost all moves of weak players is a blunder.
Ya a recapture is easy and development is easy but coming up with a plan and making the proper moves is hard so most of the time players under 1800 are always blundering.
Try playing a master when you are under 1800 and you lose usually to a tactic and it can be traced back to a move that is a blunder even though the weaker player doesn't understand it.
So it all comes down to who is playing.
2 players at 1300 don't know they are blundering but they are so I guess it isn't blundering? 🤔
Just weak play.
Good topic for discussion.
I don't know the answer.

@eladar said
What is losing depends on the level of players.

Agreed

@chessturd

I just played my first game in 300 days. I played a 1200 who played poorly but I remember fumbling around like that myself. If you do not know the tactic how can you guard against it, but if you fall for it knowing better it is a blunder.

As you said..a plan. Strategic blunders..pawn blunders...so many ways to screw up.

I started trying to understand chess when I was 38 so I still remember making huge mistakes I see and very poorly trying to follow advice.

@eladar said
Is it a blunder if you do not know the move is a blunder? Or would you just be considered a lesser player because you do not understand why that move really sucked.

I guess the real question is if a blunder is a relative term.

Well like everything we Need a Definition before we can calibrate Things.

I sometimes use a Programm to evaluate my games. In that one they flag moves as "best" within asmall fraction of pawns worth, as error any move less than 0.5 below the Computers best and a blunder less than 1.0 panw worth.

Astonishingly I get a good percentage (around 30% typically) of my moves flagged as "best". But I am still a wealk Player, and there is no game where is there is no blunder or even what I call horrendous blunder (losing the value of a figure without compnsation).

The Problem is that a more advanced Programm or a longer claculatio time will probaly alter the value of the moves...

@Ponderable

Seems to me that the word blunder implies you are doing something that you know you should not do.

By your definition blunders are much like theory where new lines of best play can improve on and redefine exactly what a blunder is but most people do nit understand why it is a blunder. If it is not understoid then it is pretty useless in my book.

Theoretically every move in a loss is a blunder

Wiki covers is quite well with a few famous examples.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blunder_(chess)

(how come the lad got 4 red marks - seems a sensible chess question - I gave it a green.)

@greenpawn34

Some people do not like me.

I just read wiki. Looks like they agree with me in that blunder means you knew better but made a mistake based on bad play.

Some blunders are obvious but sometimes it takes a few moves to see what that pawn move did to your position.

@Eladar

In my opinion, a blunder is a move which loses immediately to a tactical refutation, whereas positional misjudgment loses slowly to strategic constriction.

I also think a certain level of proficiency is required to even begin to understand strategy, so that at novice levels, nearly all games are lost due to blunders rather than positional misjudgment.

As for whether the player knows it's a blunder or a positional misjudgment when he plays it: in the latter case, it may require long post mortem analysis and the help of a stronger player to spot the exact move or sequence of moves which constituted a positional error; whereas an OTB blunder is usually spotted just as you push your button on the clock, accompanied by a characteristic rush of blood to the face and a silent 'oh shirt!' If you do not know it is a blunder then, you will know it when your opponent knows it.

As Tartakower said, "the winner is the player who makes the second to last mistake."

No TD from me. Honest question, honest answer.