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  1. 07 Mar '12 12:50 / 6 edits
    After reading PBfromfics annotations on the end game with opposite coloured
    bishops i really wondered whether I could not have got something more from this
    game, I am white.



    Robbie the Awesome (self parody) (1628) v Utherpendragon (1848)
  2. 07 Mar '12 14:14 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    After reading PBfromfics annotations on the end game with opposite coloured
    bishops i really wondered whether I could not have got something more from this
    game, I am white.

    [fen]8/p3kp2/6p1/2pB3p/8/bP1KP3/P4PPP/8 w - - 0 35[/fen]

    Robbie the Awesome (self parody) (1628) v Utherpendragon (1848)
    [pgn] [Event "Clan challenge"] [Site "http://w being a nice guy i acquiesced, anything for an easy life.} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
    Nice annotations. Too bad you couldn't win with the extra pawn. The curse of the opposite color bishops. I have the same questions/concerns often in such situations. I will look at it more later.

    As an aside, did you consider early in the game just going straight to 8.Be2 instead of the 8.Bb5+ you did. It seems like black comes out of the 8.Bb5+ sequence with an extra developing move (Bd7).

    8.Be2. black to move.


    8.Bb5+ Bd7 9.Be2. black to move.
  3. 07 Mar '12 23:45
    Yes. Nice annotations indeed. That was a tough game but was it a draw ? IMO if I were white I would have played on. But thank you for accepting my draw offer.
  4. 08 Mar '12 00:20
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Yes. Nice annotations indeed. That was a tough game but was it a draw ? IMO if I were white I would have played on. But thank you for accepting my draw offer.
    I think white should play on too. Its likely a draw, but black's queenside pawns are weak and it may be tough to defend on both sides of the board. If nothing else, its good practice for white.

    Sometimes these opposite colored bishops are just dead drawn and all the weak side has to do is shuffle his bishop back and forth.
    I can can see black messing this one up, because his queenside pawns are weak and the kingside's not optimal either.
  5. 08 Mar '12 00:31
    It certainly looks drawish. There is only the possibility of creating one passed pawn at the moment (e pawn), but it could easily be blockaded.

    White's position still has a few plusses though:

    1. Black's kingside pawns are on white squares, so the king may have to guard them for a while (before they get coordinated). This is perhaps a slight advantage but in time only.

    2. Black's A pawn may be vulnerable (while his king is defending f7). A try of Kc4,Kb5, and Ka6 comes to mind. Of course, he may have counter measures (say Bb4, Be1, Bf2, and maybe a discovered check when white captures, for what that's worth). This may not even be black's best defense. I'm just taking a quick look.

    3. White is a pawn up, but that's also not a whole lot in these kind of endings.

    If I were white, I'd play on. A pawn up, plus the pressure on him of that advantage, plus some (slight) play left, would make it worthwhile to try for the win. After all white is holding all the cards at the moment. It is very easy for black to collapse under the pressure, but ... you are playing a strong player and there are no clocks.

    I'd still give it a try, but I would not be the least bit surprised if it did end up being a draw.

    All bishops of opposite endings are drawn!
  6. 08 Mar '12 03:48
    I'm not too fond of the opening few moves.

    What is wrong with 4...Qf6 here.


    It looks kind of similiar to a game of mine I just posted in the Brillancy Dept thread.
    Black is equal at least after 4...Qf6.

    Black played 4...NxN White has made two moves with that Knight.
    Let White swap it. (make it make a 3rd move.)

    As Moon pointed out above. I cannot see the point of the Bishop check either.
    Robbie's explantion about it preventing Bg4 is strange.
    The White Bishop is the problem in this opening if Black plays against it.

    Game 9040814 Look at Black's 3rd move. I won loads of game as Black
    with this move. Black equalises without sweat. The plan noted by Robbie after
    move 3 "normally white plays e3 and Bb5.." is now prevented. There is no
    loss of tempo - White has taken two moves to develop his Bishop.


    Black here played 9...Be7. Why so timid. 9....Bd6 let him think twice
    before 0-0 without a Knight on f3. He is going to have weaken his Kingside pawns.

    White to play his 11th move.


    I'm not a fan of the White position. Black can simply move his Queen (c7) centralise the Rooks.
    The Bishops can aim at the naked King. Bd6 comes with a tempo after Qc7.

    Robbie goes for the 11.d3 which is playable. 11.f3 is in there as well.
    Maybe 11.d4 right away before a Rook comes to d8.
    I feel Black did not play the position well after this. He could have got more.
    I'm thinking he let White into the game, let him get away with just too much.

    Just a thought.
  7. 08 Mar '12 04:13 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    White to play his 11th move.

    [fen]r2q1rk1/pp1bbppp/5n2/2pp4/4p3/1P2P3/PBPPBPPP/RN1Q1RK1 w - - 0 11[/fen]
    I'm not a fan of the White position. Black can simply move his Queen (c7) centralise the Rooks.
    The Bishops can aim at the naked King. Bd6 comes with a tempo after Qc7.
    True, as white, I would be expecting black to play Qc7 and to centralize his rooks, and would feel somehwat insecure in my castled king position. White to play his 11th move.



    Moreover, while not necessarily justified, I am not a big fan of post-modern stuff especially 1.b3.
  8. 08 Mar '12 06:28 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    After reading PBfromfics annotations on the end game with opposite coloured
    bishops i really wondered whether I could not have got something more from this
    game, I am white.

    [fen]8/p3kp2/6p1/2pB3p/8/bP1KP3/P4PPP/8 w - - 0 35[/fen]

    Robbie the Awesome (self parody) (1628) v Utherpendragon (1848)
    [pgn] [Event "Clan challenge"] [Site "http://w being a nice guy i acquiesced, anything for an easy life.} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
    It looks like a draw to me. The only hope for a win for white might be to advance pawns on and focus on the king side but likely to no avail.

  9. 08 Mar '12 11:33


    Before draw agreement I would play 35.Kc4 to see if Black will do something to parry Kb5-a5 threat. If Black understands this and plays 35...a5 with Bb4 to follow then I don`t see how White can make any progress.
  10. 08 Mar '12 19:06
    thanks so much to everyone for taking the time, i really appreciate it - kind regards Robbie.
  11. Standard member hedonist
    peacedog's keeper
    08 Mar '12 19:19
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    thanks so much to everyone for taking the time, i really appreciate it - kind regards Robbie.
    Hang on Robbie, I've not had my bit yet.

    If Pacs plan to counter whites king going after the queenside pawns involves a5 and Bb4, will the bishop not be overworked when white advances the kingside pawns with support from bishop n king?

    Given that the black bishop must both protect the weak pawns and defend against whites advance.
  12. 08 Mar '12 19:31 / 3 edits
    Blacks king is pinned to defense and his kingside pawns are on light squares. 1.f4 and 2.h4 halt the kingside pawns, if black plays pawn to f5 or f6 and Kd6 at any point then Bf7 skewers both pawns on g6 and h5.

    I think white can play to force black into zugzwang.
  13. 08 Mar '12 19:33
    Originally posted by hedonist
    Hang on Robbie, I've not had my bit yet.

    If Pacs plan to counter whites king going after the queenside pawns involves a5 and Bb4, will the bishop not be overworked when white advances the kingside pawns with support from bishop n king?

    Given that the black bishop must both protect the weak pawns and defend against whites advance.
    Black Bishop should defend Q-side pawns only if White King attacks them. Can White King attack K-side pawns at the same time? I don`t think so.
  14. 08 Mar '12 21:25
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    I'm not too fond of the opening few moves.

    What is wrong with 4...Qf6 here.

    [fen]r1bqkbnr/pppp1ppp/2n5/8/3Np3/1P6/PBPPPPPP/RN1QKB1R b KQkq - 0 4[/fen]
    It looks kind of similiar to a game of mine I just posted in the Brillancy Dept thread.
    Black is equal at least after 4...Qf6.

    Black played 4...NxN White has made two moves with that Knight.
    L ...[text shortened]... nking he let White into the game, let him get away with just too much.

    Just a thought.
    4..... Qf6
    5. e3 is slightly better for white, eg
    5.... Bc5
    6. Nc3 Nd4
    7. Nd5

    more interesting would be
    5. Nc6!? Qb2
    6. Nc3 dc
    7. a3 unclear
  15. 08 Mar '12 21:47
    Originally posted by Pacifique
    [fen]8/p3kp2/6p1/2pB3p/8/bP1KP3/P4PPP/8 w - - 0 35[/fen]

    Before draw agreement I would play 35.Kc4 to see if Black will do something to parry Kb5-a5 threat. If Black understands this and plays 35...a5 with Bb4 to follow then I don`t see how White can make any progress.
    In this position, I think, white would be winning if his b pawn were a c pawn.

    This goes to show how important it is to capture towards the center.