04 Sep 08
1 edit
hi sorry for previous post with no title, hopefully it will disappear, anyhow here is a game that i really played very badly, first losing an exchange, then allowing a passed pawn, and was literally one move from being mated, is it therefore what you would term a swindle ? - regards Robert.
p.s. i am white, you can probably tell from rather bad moves!
04 Sep 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNice comeback, Robbie. Sometimes one tempo makes all the difference in the world. I'm not sure it could be called a swindle. Maybe, not sure. But Black definitely wasn't paying attention to his king safety.
hi sorry for previous post with no title, hopefully it will disappear, anyhow here is a game that i really played very badly, first losing an exchange, then allowing a passed pawn, and was literally one move from being mated, is it therefore what you would term a swindle ? - regards Robert.
[pgn][Event "Friendly Game"]
[Site "chesshere.com"]
[Da ...[text shortened]... Qh6# 1-0[/pgn]
p.s. i am white, you can probably tell from rather bad moves!
04 Sep 08
1 edit
Originally posted by Mad Rookthanks Mad rook, I really felt for the guy, he should have never in a zillion years lost that game, but like you say, a tempo is all that it takes. actually I heard the term from greenpawn and wondered what it was and just assumed it must mean something to do with a player being robbed of a win through his own negligence or through the efforts of his opponent , but i dunno- regards Robert.
Nice comeback, Robbie. Sometimes one tempo makes all the difference in the world. I'm not sure it could be called a swindle. Maybe, not sure. But Black definitely wasn't paying attention to his king safety.
05 Sep 08
Originally posted by Mad Rookyes you are indeed correct Rook , no need for those engine smengine things, 37.Qe7 ..Kg8 is perpetual, mmmmm i think, or at least it sure looks that way
This is interesting. I think Black's fatal mistake was playing 37...Kh6. I think if he had moved his king anywhere else, he may have had a perpetual draw, due to his threat of mate. (Didn't check it with an engine, I hope I'm not wrong.)
05 Sep 08
4 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIn deciding if this is a "swindle" you need to go back to the point where black was definately winning and see what happened then. I haven't analysed this in detail but I think this may be move 32. .... Qb3?? which loses whereas 32. .... Rxf1 seems to keep black a solid piece up and probably winning.
hi sorry for previous post with no title, hopefully it will disappear, anyhow here is a game that i really played very badly, first losing an exchange, then allowing a passed pawn, and was literally one move from being mated, is it therefore what you would term a swindle ? - regards Robert.
[pgn][Event "Friendly Game"]
[Site "chesshere.com"]
[Da Qh6# 1-0[/pgn]
p.s. i am white, you can probably tell from rather bad moves!
After 33. RXa1 we begin a long series of "forced" moves which seems to result in a win. This would be a perfectly valid and good combination rather than a swindle on the basis that after 33. RXa1 white was winning.
It looks for certain that after 35. .... RXa1 white is winning and blacks best hope is to "swindle" a draw by forcing white to take a perpetual.
A swindle occurs when one side is totally lost and the other contrives a sneaky unforced mate or decisive material gain. I think there was a good cunning combination here rather than an out and out swindle.
Of course analyse this with an engine and it should clearly give the point at which this game swings from black to white. I find the main benefit of engines is to assist in identifying this point as it is not always where you expect it to be. Once it is identified you need to analyse the position for yourself (without the engine) to find how you should have played (or how your opponent could have saved / won it).
06 Sep 08
I am also a beginner. A swindle, how I understand it, is when the winner is down in material and "cheats" the player with better position and material out of the win. It looks like black had one more pawn and a rook to your knight. Though it looked like you might have gotten a checkmate with rook/queen -- probably not a "swindle" in the truest sense (watch all the GMs and IMs say how wrong I am).
Maybe you almost got away with a swindle.
07 Sep 08
Originally posted by ladyviola66See the game in Thread 99828.
I am also a beginner. A swindle, how I understand it, is when the winner is down in material and "cheats" the player with better position and material out of the win.
That is a real swindle.
The word cheats is wrong. (though the loser often feels cheated).
The swindler does nothing illegal during the game except set traps
instead of resigning. If the victim falls for one of these traps then
that is their fault. They blundered.
It's not the player who makes the most blunders who losses.
(my Bxh2+ was a lemon because I failed to see the Bf4 defence).
It's the player who makes the last blunder who losses.
(In this case forgetting why he played Bf4).
In my experience in chess - what comes around, goes around.
I will now lose a game I should have won. It's called justice.