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  1. Standard member MCA
    TokerSmurf
    25 Mar '06 21:34
    Another thread got me looking into stats and percentages for my games and i noticed that i appear to be better playing as black. ok i have not gone into any detail to see if this is due to playing lesser rated players as black or something but in simple terms i have a slightly better win ratio when playing black.

    I know that white has a theoretical advantage as they get to move first but does this really come into play in the lower rankings? Im currently rated 1400 exactly (but sure to drop soon) and usually play others in the 1300 range so is it just cause i dont play people who can make use of that advantage?

    how may others are better when playing as black?

    My stats (in case you might be interested):

    Combined (total : 186)
    =======================
    wins : 109 = 58.6%
    losses : 73 = 39.2%
    draws : 4 = 2.2%


    White (total : 85)
    =======================
    wins : 49 = 57.6%
    losses : 34 = 40%
    draws : 2 = 2.4%


    Black (total : 101)
    =======================
    wins : 60 = 59.4%
    losses : 39 = 38.6%
    draws : 2 = 2%
  2. 25 Mar '06 22:13
    White may have a slight advantage when the players are high level and even in playing strength. I think that Black has the resources to take on anything White wants to try. Black even has the resources to draw the game when playing the Latvian Gambit? The bad thing is that Black has no real hope of winning with the Latvian Gambit.
  3. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    25 Mar '06 23:08
    Originally posted by MCA
    I know that white has a theoretical advantage as they get to move first but does this really come into play in the lower rankings?
    No
  4. Standard member mosquitorespect
    Not Royalty
    26 Mar '06 00:43
    Originally posted by MCA
    Another thread got me looking into stats and percentages for my games and i noticed that i appear to be better playing as black. ok i have not gone into any detail to see if this is due to playing lesser rated players as black or something but in simple terms i have a slightly better win ratio when playing black.

    I know that white has a theoretical advantage ...[text shortened]... k (total : 101)
    =======================
    wins : 60 = 59.4%
    losses : 39 = 38.6%
    draws : 2 = 2%
    I have done much better as white than black:

    White: 48.9% wins, 46.6% losses
    Black: 43.8% wins, 52.2% losses

    And I have been a low rated player for most of the time, only going up to 1500 over the last few weeks.
  5. 26 Mar '06 01:16
    At the master and GM level, I belive it makes a diffence. But for us, no.
  6. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    26 Mar '06 01:23
    Originally posted by RahimK
    At the master and GM level, I belive it makes a diffence. But for us, no.
    I think it matters for you and me, and others in the top 800 or so on this site. But it does not matter to anyone that makes random moves without a plan.
  7. 26 Mar '06 01:42
    Originally posted by mosquitorespect
    I have done much better as white than black:
    Me too:

    White:
    Wins 78.08%
    Draws 2.74%
    Losses 19.18%

    Black:
    Wins 68.92%
    Draws 9.46%
    Losses 21.62%

    I think it will eventually even out, or at least the difference will get much smaller. Before I started playing here, I almost exclusively played white (in Chessmaster), so in the beginning I found it confusing to play black and did considerably worse with black than with white.
  8. 26 Mar '06 01:47
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    I think it matters for you and me, and others in the top 800 or so on this site. But it does not matter to anyone that makes random moves without a plan.
    haha I'm touched but your wrong Wulebgr!

    Naw seriously, I don't think it's a big deal for us. I know my games aren't won because of the opening yet.

    But I feel comfortable with black because I have some nice line for black take from Roman dvd's. Working on my white right now.

    Win with white, draw with black as the saying goes. For GMs that is.
  9. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    26 Mar '06 02:14
    Originally posted by RahimK
    haha I'm touched but your wrong Wulebgr!

    Naw seriously, I don't think it's a big deal for us. I know my games aren't won because of the opening yet.
    White's advantage is not a winning advantage. It requires diligence and effort, and black has many opportunities to equalize.

    White has no advantage among players that manage to lose in the first ten moves. Many players on this site are lost that soon, even if they don't realize it because checkmate doesn't come until move 65.
  10. 26 Mar '06 02:24
    This is a philosophical question....with PERFECT play on both sides, should white win, or merely draw.
    It's argued back and forth, my feeling is a draw should be the result. Others think that the tempo should result in a win.
    Who knows?
  11. 26 Mar '06 03:25
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    White's advantage is not a winning advantage. It requires diligence and effort, and black has many opportunities to equalize.

    White has no advantage among players that manage to lose in the first ten moves. Many players on this site are lost that soon, even if they don't realize it because checkmate doesn't come until move 65.
    I think it matters for you and me, and others in the top 800 or so on this site. But it does not matter to anyone that makes random moves without a plan.



    Sound contradictory to me.

    If black has many opportunities to equalize then White 1st move advantage is not real, and hence for us wouldn't matter.
  12. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    26 Mar '06 04:19
    Originally posted by RahimK
    I think it matters for you and me, and others in the top 800 or so on this site. But it does not matter to anyone that makes random moves without a plan.



    Sound contradictory to me.

    If black has many opportunities to equalize then White 1st move advantage is not real, and hence for us wouldn't matter.
    White has the initiative, but it is easily thrown away. Black is not without chances, but white starts with the advantage.

    Before the first move: +/=

    After 1.e4 =

  13. 26 Mar '06 09:40
    I believe I have read somewhere that the difference between white and black in my rating groep (1400?) is about 2% and between grandmasters 6%. This number is even higher with those called supergrandmasters (2700+?).
    So it does matter somewhat, even at my pityful level of play, athough not much.
    I'm by the way one of those who has a higher percentage as black than with white. Mainly because I've shifted with my white openings this last year at least four time, while still playing the same with black.
  14. 26 Mar '06 21:22
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    White has the initiative, but it is easily thrown away. Black is not without chances, but white starts with the advantage.

    Before the first move: +/=

    After 1.e4 =

    I don't understand which side you are on.

    I'm saying that there is no advantage until you reach master level.

    You are saying that here is an advantage at our level, 1700ish?

    I don't think so. I hope you are sitting down for this one.

    You get away with playing 1.f3 2.Kg2 etc.. because our games are not decided in the opening against decent players. Harsh hey? haha, don't take it personally, take it seriously

    Try that at the Master level and you'll see. I know there are master who play this but its rare. We make fun of our one master who plays this now and then.
  15. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    26 Mar '06 21:33 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by RahimK
    You get away with playing 1.f3 2.Kg2 etc.. because our games are not decided in the opening against decent players. Harsh hey? haha, don't take it personally, take it seriously
    Game 1840336

    I didn't get away with it against a decent opponent.

    In the database of my online games, I won 52% as white with a performance of +2 (above my average rating). As black, I won 51% with a performance of -7. 24711 total games. I'd say that white has an advantage at my level, but that it is very slight. For players above 2200, the advantage is greater, but still modest. White has the initiative, but black has many resources to equalize. Against white's best play, black has more difficulty equalizing.

    I'm less serious here:
    1.e4 c5 =
    1.e4 e6 +/=
    1.e4 e5 +/=
    1.d4 +/=
    1.c4 =