I reached a point in a game this weekend at the NYS Open when my opponent offered a draw right before I was about to be forced to give up my Rook for an advanced passed pawn leaving the ending mentioned above. The position would have been:
Rybka says 0.00. Basic Chess Endings says the Rook should be able to at least hold the draw if the pawns aren't well advanced (which they aren't). Most of the other players I talked to said they think Black should win (I took the draw being down time and being a bit tired at 10:00 PM). What's the assessment of players here?
BTW, I had missed a clear win in the middle-game and had been a bit worse off in the endgame from the git go which probably influenced my decision to take the draw.
Originally posted by CimonI agree, White "should" not lose; however I clearly remember losing a game quite painfully with R vs. 3 pawns with about the same setting... when I was about 11. 🙂 I had no idea I should be BEHIND the pawns with the Rook - I just tried to hold it with K on g1 and R on f1. It ended in misery.
In my opinion White should not lose.
(strange how a simple chess position can trigger memories that have been tucked away for YEARS)
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No idea about the theoretical assessment but purely based on the position I would try to win with the pawns.If it's a draw make him prove he can defend it while gaining some good experience yourself.It might result in a loss,of course,that's the risk you take.
With the other circumstances you mentioned I would also settle for the draw.
Originally posted by no1marauderThe white King is close to the black pawns and therefore the Black cannot achieve the necessary setup in order to win (pawns at f4, g3 and h2 and King at g4), so the position is in my opinion drawish.
I reached a point in a game this weekend at the NYS Open when my opponent offered a draw right before I was about to be forced to give up my Rook for an advanced passed pawn leaving the ending mentioned above. The position would have been:
[fen]8/1K4p1/R4pk1/4p2p/8/8/8/8 b - - 0 43[/fen]
Rybka says 0.00. [i]Basic Chess Endings ...[text shortened]... se off in the endgame from the git go which probably influenced my decision to take the draw.
Originally posted by no1marauderBy the way - which turn to move?
I reached a point in a game this weekend at the NYS Open when my opponent offered a draw right before I was about to be forced to give up my Rook for an advanced passed pawn leaving the ending mentioned above. The position would have been:
[fen]8/1K4p1/R4pk1/4p2p/8/8/8/8 b - - 0 43[/fen]
Rybka says 0.00. [i]Basic Chess Endings ...[text shortened]... se off in the endgame from the git go which probably influenced my decision to take the draw.
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Originally posted by no1marauderI think Black's simply winning, White's King way out of position, the basic strategy for Black is to play Kf5 and push the g and h pawns like crazy.
I reached a point in a game this weekend at the NYS Open when my opponent offered a draw right before I was about to be forced to give up my Rook for an advanced passed pawn leaving the ending mentioned above. The position would have been:
[fen]8/1K4p1/R4pk1/4p2p/8/8/8/8 b - - 0 43[/fen]
Rybka says 0.00. Basic Chess Endings ...[text shortened]... off in the endgame from the git go which probably influenced my decision to take the draw.
At a recent team tourney, USATE, our fourth board achieved a similar position and won, with the four pawns, but his were more advanced.
Recall this game in which this ending came up, the king is much better placed though:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1042306
These two as well:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1264266
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1254330
And an example drawing setup:
- 8
- a
- 7
- b
- 6
- c
- 5
- d
- 4
- e
- 3
- f
- 2
- g
- 1
- h
The Bareev-Fressinet ending should have been drawn, btw, Black misplayed it greatly, allowing his King to be cut off from his pawns.
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Originally posted by CimonBlack obviously.
By the way - which turn to move?
It looks like I am a wuss after all.😞 This was a third round game; if I had won it rather than drawn, I would have been tied for first when I played in the final round rather than being a half point behind. My final opponent had White, played for the draw and got it, winning the U1700 and leaving me tied for 2nd.
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Originally posted by no1marauderWhen your opponent is in the mindset of getting a draw and by winning the game you have a chance to come in first maybe its a good time to play something slightly unsound like a daring pawn sac to liven things up a bit. Him going for a draw might cause him to misplay after that and give you good chances to win.
Black obviously.
It looks like I am a wuss after all.😞 This was a third round game; if I had won it rather than drawn, I would have been tied for first when I played in the final round rather than being a half point behind. My final opponent had White, played for the draw and got it, winning the U1700 and leaving me tied for 2nd.
I mean if you find yourself in trouble you can always offer a draw since he will probably take it and the worse that can happen is he doesn't take it, beats you and you don't win the tourney which happened anyway except your just a few rating points higher for getting a draw.
Originally posted by tomtom232(Shrug) I play the Najdorf as Black and am quite comfortable with it. I don't see any reason to play something I'm not as good at; I have an excellent record with the Najdorf. I got a slight advantage out of the opening but not enough to cash in.
When your opponent is in the mindset of getting a draw and by winning the game you have a chance to come in first maybe its a good time to play something slightly unsound like a daring pawn sac to liven things up a bit him going for a draw might cause him to misplay after that.and give you good chances to win.
I mean if you find yourself in trouble afte ...[text shortened]... tourney which happened anyway except your just a few rating points higher for getting a draw.
A 2nd place tie won me a few bucks (though that wasn't all that important) and got my rating over 1600 OTB for the first time. Considering I had only played 4 OTB Games since last Labor Day weekend, the results considerably exceeded my expectations.
Originally posted by no1marauderI don't think he meant to play a different opening but rather to take a risk in the middlegame.You have to win to take first so you don't have much to lose.
(Shrug) I play the Najdorf as Black and am quite comfortable with it. I don't see any reason to play something I'm not as good at; I have an excellent record with the Najdorf. I got a slight advantage out of the opening but not enough to cash in.
A 2nd place tie won me a few bucks (though that wasn't all that important) and got my rating ove ...[text shortened]... 4 OTB Games since last Labor Day weekend, the results considerably exceeded my expectations.
Anyhow,second place is a good result.
Congrats!
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Originally posted by RomanticusI really hate to lose. I'm probably too prone to accept draws for that reason (among others). Last year at this tournament, I won in the first round and then played to 4 draws, two of which I was in a much better position.
I don't think he meant to play a different opening but rather to take a risk in the middlegame.You have to win to take first so you don't have much to lose.
Anyhow,second place is a good result.
Congrats!