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  1. 17 Feb '11 12:14
    I want to set up a neverending chess competition at work (on board or online depending what people want) and I want to keep score, so basically how it is played on sites like this. So if you lose from someone who's lower ranked than you are you lose more points than losing from someone who's higher ranked than you are. This is the ladder system, I think?

    Is there either a program that I can use for this, or alternatively is there a formula that I can use in for example excel to keep track of people's progress. Would copying the formula that is used by this website be sufficient?
  2. 17 Feb '11 12:31
    you can try:

    Try this website:
    http://demo.ratingchess.com
    you can use
    user:abc
    pass:abc

    to try to add some players and some results to see how it works(see in Statistics menu option, you can add players, tournaments and games there, and you will see the rating changes) .

    I created it for our local federation, and if you like it you can use it like it is, or you can ask me to clean the existing sample data so you will have only your real data.
    I can also create a different one just for your use, but it is easier for me if you just use this existing one.

    You can click on player's details to see some statistics about them, similar to FIDE site/rating. I am using their formula(also having K factor), but you only need to give an initial starting rating(you can try with 1800) for your players. In case they have an ELO already it you can give it as starting rating.

    I am also open to suggestions of improvement for this site.(I am working on it to make it look better and to integrate it with some news section)

    What do you think ?(people would love to go to internet and find their names there and check their progress)
  3. 17 Feb '11 12:48
    by the way, you can see that without a user you have access to the tables but you cannot edit them...so anyone can see the players and results.

    The table has a filter options-you can expand it by pressing the small v in top left of the table(maybe I should make it expanded by default, because usually people do not notice this), so you can filter to see only:
    players from a specific federation that have rating greater than 1900 and their name starts with A, sorted by rating descending-for example.

    You can press on column names that are displayed in blue to sort the table by different criteria (like rating or name or country, etc).
  4. 17 Feb '11 12:59 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    I want to set up a neverending chess competition at work (on board or online depending what people want) and I want to keep score, so basically how it is played on sites like this. So if you lose from someone who's lower ranked than you are you lose more points than losing from someone who's higher ranked than you are. This is the ladder system, I thi ...[text shortened]... k of people's progress. Would copying the formula that is used by this website be sufficient?
    A ladder system doesn't rely on ratings. Many years ago (pre-PC so technological dark ages) I belonged to a club that had a ladder system and it worked as follows:

    Any player could challenge the players one or two places above him, except if he was on the top rung of the ladder. If the challenger won he simply moved into the place above the challenged player. If the challenger lost he stayed in place and had to ask if either of those in the two places below him wanted to challenge him before issuing another challenge. The only other rules were that a player could only play one challenge at a time (no PC = no internet), any player challenged could only refuse a challenge if he already had a challenge in progress and any pending challenges had to be played before making or accepting new challenges.

    It was all kept track of on a cardboard contraption (strip of card with numbered slots) into which the "Ladder Monitor" fitted cards bearing the names and details of the players. When the system was started we were assigned our starting positions by random draw although other systems could easily be used. Any new player was inserted at the bottom of the ladder. An electronic version could easily be produced in Excel or some other spreadsheet.

    It worked well for several years until people started getting all serious about grades as a method of penis measurement by proxy.
  5. 17 Feb '11 13:56
    Originally posted by Diophantus
    ...penis measurement...
    Hmm, I want to at least have a chance at winning, so let's not do that.

    Seriously though, the ladder system sounds rather "forced" but we want to be able to play against whomever we want so the system that this website uses (challenge anyone you want and loose or gain points based on your and your opponents raiting) sounds more "fun".

    I will look at your website, vipiu. Thanks so far.
  6. 17 Feb '11 14:48
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    Hmm, I want to at least have a chance at winning, so let's not do that.

    Seriously though, the ladder system sounds rather "forced" but we want to be able to play against whomever we want so the system that this website uses (challenge anyone you want and loose or gain points based on your and your opponents raiting) sounds more "fun".

    I will look at your website, vipiu. Thanks so far.
    Pinched from the site FAQ:

    When you join, you are given a rating of 1200.
    If you enter into a rated game, your rating will be recalculated on its completion so long as at least two moves have been made by each player.
    Note: Until you have completed 20 games your rating may go down even when you win a game!
    Until you complete 20 games, you will have a provisional rating. This rating is calculated as the average of all the games you have played. Each game is scored as being your opponent's rating (for a draw), your opponent's rating plus 400 (for a win), or your opponent's rating minus 400 (for a loss). If your opponent is also on a provisional rating, then the 400s above become 200s. If your opponent has played fewer than five games then their rating is treated as 1200 when calculating your rating.
    Players are rated using the following formula:
    New Rating = Old Rating + K * (Score - Win Expectancy)
    K is a constant (32 for 0-2099, 24 for 2100-2399, 16 for 2400 and above)
    Score is 1 for a win, 0.5 for a draw and 0 for a loss.
    The Win Expectancy is calculated using the following formula :
    Win Expectancy = 1 / (10^((OpponentRating-YourRating)/400)+1)
    The Win Expectancy is used in the rating calculation but is interesting on its own. For example, the calculation below is for a rating difference of 200. This shows that if you have a rating 200 points higher than another player, you can expect to beat them, on average, three times for each four games played.
    Win Expectancy = 1 / (10^(-200/400)+1) = 0.76
    Note: ^ = "to the power of", e.g. 2^3=8.
    If you have a non-provisional rating and you play a provisional-rated player, then you receive (or lose) only half the number of rating points you would normally. If the provisionally-rated player has played fewer than five games, then their rating is treated as 1200 when calculating your rating.

    It shouldn't be too hard to implement the formula in a spreadsheet if vipiu's site doesn't suit.
  7. 17 Feb '11 15:15
    Originally posted by Diophantus
    Pinched from the site FAQ:

    When you join, you are given a rating of 1200.
    If you enter into a rated game, your rating will be recalculated on its completion so long as at least two moves have been made by each player.
    Note: Until you have completed 20 games your rating may go down even when you win a game!
    Until you complete 20 games, you will have ...[text shortened]... dn't be too hard to implement the formula in a spreadsheet if vipiu's site doesn't suit.
    A while back, I managed to cobble together a simple spreadsheet program to do that.

    Thread 133275

    It only calculated the new rating based on the rating of the opponent. It did not track rating histories.

    Unfortunately, the file sharing service I used got bought out, and the service is now defunct.
  8. 20 Feb '11 15:58
    hi ive found this in the forum and it is a rough estimation of points scored when winning or losing. It seemes simpler thsn the actual formula and in my matches has worked
    Difference ____ H-- D -- L
    0-10 __________ 16 - 0 - 16
    11-32 _________ 15 - 1 - 17
    33-54 _________ 14 - 2 - 18
    55-77 _________ 13 - 3 - 19
    78-100 ________ 12 - 4 - 20
    101-124 _______ 11 - 5 - 21
    125-149 _______ 10 - 6 - 22
    150-176 _______ 9 - 7 - 23
    177-205 _______ 8 - 8 - 24
    206-237 _______ 7 - 9 - 25
    238-273 _______ 6 - 10 - 26
    274-314 _______ 5 - 11 - 27
    315-364 _______ 4 - 12 - 28
    365-428 _______ 3 - 13 - 29
    429-523 _______ 2 - 14 - 30
    524-719 _______ 1 - 15 - 31
    720+ __________ 0 - 16 - 32
  9. 20 Feb '11 16:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by pawne4
    hi ive found this in the forum and it is a rough estimation of points scored when winning or losing. It seemes simpler thsn the actual formula and in my matches has worked
    Difference ____ H-- D -- L
    0-10 __________ 16 - 0 - 16
    11-32 _________ 15 - 1 - 17
    33-54 _________ 14 - 2 - 18
    55-77 _________ 13 - 3 - 19
    78-100 ________ 12 - 4 - 20
    101-124 ...[text shortened]... 3 - 29
    429-523 _______ 2 - 14 - 30
    524-719 _______ 1 - 15 - 31
    720+ __________ 0 - 16 - 32
    Perfectly fine, as long as he doesn't care about K factors (kicks in at 2100 or above on RHP) or provisional players.

    If adjusting ratings by hand, the chart would be faster. But if done by computer, it wouldn't make any difference (chart vs. formula), since it's lightning fast in either case.
  10. 20 Feb '11 19:03
    yep good point if the computer can do it then yes i did find also on the forums a excel spreadsheet that did it but i cant remember where
  11. 20 Feb '11 20:15
    I'll try to make an Excel spreadsheet using this site's formula when I have time. Thanks for your input.
  12. 20 Feb '11 21:18
    I dug out the old files and uploaded them to Hotfiles. Sorry about having to enter download codes and the 30 minute restriction. (Although I WAS able to download all four without having to observe the time restriction.) I'm not sure how long the links will be active. I think they go away after 90 days if no download activity?

    Versions 1.1 and 1.2.
    sxc is OpenOffice format, xls is Excel 97/2000/XP format.


    http://hotfile.com/dl/106347298/085c602/RHP_Rating_1_1.sxc.html
    http://hotfile.com/dl/106349935/0fb4c97/RHP_Rating_1_1.xls.html
    http://hotfile.com/dl/106351612/a80a5c1/RHP_Rating_1_2.sxc.html
    http://hotfile.com/dl/106352240/11d17c4/RHP_Rating_1_2.xls.html
  13. 20 Feb '11 21:40
    Thanks, i was able to download them both without having to wait 30 minutes. Will try it out later.
  14. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    21 Feb '11 05:40
    Originally posted by Diophantus
    A ladder system doesn't rely on ratings. Many years ago (pre-PC so technological dark ages) I belonged to a club that had a ladder system and it worked as follows:

    Any player could challenge the players one or two places above him, except if he was on the top rung of the ladder. If the challenger won he simply moved into the place above the challenged ...[text shortened]... il people started getting all serious about grades as a method of penis measurement by proxy.
    well, like they say, the penis mightier than the sword
  15. 21 Feb '11 19:29
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    Thanks, i was able to download them both without having to wait 30 minutes. Will try it out later.
    maybe you should consider trying also the web technology(the site)...people will love to see their names online and they will love the statistics, so they can check they evolution whenever they want