Only Chess
14 Jul 06
14 Jul 06
2 edits
Is this an example of distant opposition?! With Kd3, White can take the “direct” opposition immediately. I thought “Kd3, Kc5, Kc3 with a win for White”.
By “distant” opposition, the kings are usually further apart… see for example… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_(chess)#Distant_opposition
Edit: I should add that the link may help answer your question :-)
14 Jul 06
Originally posted by HomerJSimpsonyes if the white king can get in front of his pawn then its a win unless black can take the short opposition. If white can't get in front at all then its a draw. important exceptions rook pawns are drawn if the black king can get anywhere in front of the pawn. if the pawn is on the fifth rank and the white king is on the 6th black is on the 8th it doesn't matter who has the opposition white wins.
Is there a way to just look at these games and know when its won and when its drawn:
White to move, won or drawn just by looking?
[fen]8/8/8/3k4/8/8/2PK4/8 w - - 0 1[/fen]
white wins no matter who has the move.
1.Kc6 Kc8 2.d6 Kd8 3.d7 Ke7 4.Kc7
14 Jul 06
1 edit
Originally posted by HomerJSimpsondistant opision is when there is more than one square imbetween the Kings....
How do you explain this than, the white king can get in front of the pawn, but its still a draw? Im a little confused on this distant opposition stuff.
White to move
[fen]8/8/2k5/8/8/8/2P5/2K5 w - - 0 1[/fen]
basically all it means is if one king moves foward, then the other king, by moving foward will take the opisition.
So, In the posted example....
Kd2 Kd5? (allows white Kd3, winning the opisition) Kd6 (keeps distant opisition, now if white plays Kd3 is can be met with Kd5, and Black wins the opisition **)
**In this example I don't think it can save black because a white pawn move [c3] would force black to give up the opisition, and with it the draw.
^^ I don't see how this position is drawn.
EDIT: - oh wait, Black can draw. haha, that will teach me for trusting crafty...
14 Jul 06
Originally posted by HomerJSimpsonWhite can't get his king infront of the pawn and hold the opposition. After 1. Kd2 Kd6 2. Kc3 Kc5 it is white's move so black gets the opposition, and white has no way of improving on the sequence.
How do you explain this than, the white king can get in front of the pawn, but its still a draw? Im a little confused on this distant opposition stuff.
White to move
[fen]8/8/2k5/8/8/8/2P5/2K5 w - - 0 1[/fen]
14 Jul 06
Originally posted by aginis1. Kb8 Qb6+ 2. Ka8 Now if Black takes the pawn it is Stalemate, if he checks again White plays Kb8 defending the pawn, and any other move allows Black to play either Kb8 or c8=Q as appropriate. The point
white to play and draw
[fen]2K5/2P5/2q5/8/8/2k5/8/8[/fen]
is that Black cannot force White to block the pawn, which would allow White's King to move nearer.
14 Jul 06
Originally posted by HomerJSimpsonYes homerjsimpson, there is. I know this is won because of a few factors.
Is there a way to just look at these games and know when its won and when its drawn:
White to move, won or drawn just by looking?
[fen]8/8/8/3k4/8/8/2PK4/8 w - - 0 1[/fen]
1. White can get direct opposition, black will either move to b5 or d5. If black moves to d5, white just moves to b4 with an easy win. If black moves to b5, after kb3, black will be forced to move, and white will take control and go on one of the "critical squares (a4, b4, or c4) This "flanking" maneuver will push black back, and white will eventually win. Basically, if white gets direct opposition, white wins. As simple as that.
15 Jul 06
Originally posted by HomerJSimpsonTo win In the K+P v K ending, the stronger side must have one of the
Is there a way to just look at these games and know when its won and when its drawn:
White to move, won or drawn just by looking?
[fen]8/8/8/3k4/8/8/2PK4/8 w - - 0 1[/fen]
following advantages.
A/ His King two ranks ahead of the Pawn.
B/ His King one rank ahead of the Pawn, and have the opposition.
C/ His King on the sixth rank and ahead of the Pawn.
In A, he is able to use the pawn move as a waiting move if neces-
sary to to reach B.
In B, since the weaker side's King must either retreat or move to
the side, the stronger side's King can advance and thus cover the
squares the Pawn needs to use.
In C, without the opposition, he wins by advancing the Pawn; while
with the opposition, he must use it in the same way as in B to
advance his King to the 7th rank where it covers the 6th, 7th and
8th rank squares the Pawn needs to use to promote.
15 Jul 06
Originally posted by VarenkaKings are in opposition when there is an odd number of squares between them. If there is an even number of intervening squares, then if the player to move can reduce it to an odd number, he "Gains
Is this an example of distant opposition?! With Kd3, White can take the “direct” opposition immediately. I thought “Kd3, Kc5, Kc3 with a win for White”.
By “distant” opposition, the kings are usually further apart… see for example… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_(chess)#Distant_opposition
Edit: I should add that the link may help answer your question :-)
the Opposition"
Whichever side has just moved "Has the Opposition", because the player whose turn it is cannot advance his King, he can only move to the side or retreat. Then the player with the opposition can advance his King.
"Direct Oposition" is when the two Kings are on the same file, rank or diagonal.
"Close Opposition" is when there is only one square between the Kings.
I think most text books use "Distant Opposition" when there are either three or five intervening squares, but I personally call three "Open Opposition", and five "Distant Opposition" to distinguish between them.
In the diagrammed position, White wins because it is his move and he can play 1. Kd3, gaining Close Direct Opposition, (Case B in my previous post). Black's best move is 1. ... Kc5 when if White advances his Pawn he throws away the win. He should play 2. Kc3, which keeps the opposition, (B again). If Black then retreats to b6, c6 or d6, White plays b4, c4 or d4, advancing his king and keeping the opposition. If Black moves to the side (Kb5 or d5), White advances his King on the other side, (either Kd4 or Kb4). In any of these five continuations, White now has his King two ranks ahead of his Pawn(Case A), and by continuing in this way, will eventually reach a Case C position and win from there. A vital point is that the King MUST be kept ahead of the Pawn until the King is on the sixth Rank; to bring the Pawn up level earlier allows the weaker side to draw if he knows what to do.