King's Indian

Originally posted by Korch
Lets continue this line 9.Bxf6 exf3 10.Bxg7 fxe2 11.Bxf8 exd1Q+ 12.Rxd1 Kxf8 13.Qh6+ Kg8 14.Nf3 (threat Ng5) with advantage.

12. ... Bf5+
13. Ka1 Rxf8

Drawish, maybe even a slight black's advantage because of the advanced pawn storm on the queen's side.

Without the Qh6+ tempo, I don't think white has enough time to play quietly Qh6, Nf3 and Ng5.

Cheers
GG

Originally posted by 4gats
12. ... Bf5+
13. Ka1 Rxf8

Drawish, maybe even a slight black's advantage because of the advanced pawn storm on the queen's side.

Without the Qh6+ tempo, I don't think white has enough time to play quietly Qh6, Nf3 and Ng5.

Cheers
GG

"Drawish, maybe even a slight black's advantage"????
14.g4 Bd7 (c8) 15.f4 with "advanced pawn storm" in king side which gives dangerous initiative

Originally posted by Korch
"Drawish, maybe even a slight black's advantage"????
14.g4 Bd7 (c8) 15.f4 with "advanced pawn storm" in king side which gives dangerous initiative

Not so easy.
After 15. f4, black starts a fast counterattack on a open column (e or c) and gets rapidly a true advantage.
Re8/Qb5/Qe2 or Rc8/Ba4/Bb3.

Of course, 15. ... Bd7.

Cheers
GG

Originally posted by 4gats
Not so easy.
After 15. f4, black starts a fast counterattack on a open column (e or c) and gets rapidly a true advantage.
Re8/Qb5/Qe2 or Rc8/Ba4/Bb3.

Of course, 15. ... Bd7.

Cheers
GG

OK. 5.Bf3 is no good . what about 5.a3 with h5 to follow ?

Also 2.Kb1 (instead of 2.h4 or 2.g4) is possible for example 2...f5 3.exf5 gxf5 (3....Rxf5 4.Ne4) 4.Rc1 with advantage - white king is safe but, black king side is weakened.

Originally posted by Korch
OK. 5.Bf3 is no good . what about 5.a3 with h5 to follow ?

Also 2.Kb1 (instead of 2.h4 or 2.g4) is possible for example 2...f5 3.exf5 gxf5 (3....Rxf5 4.Ne4) 4.Rc1 with advantage - white king is safe but, black king side is weakened.

I repeat the line we're talking about...

> 1....Nd7 2.h4 Nf6 3.Nh2 a6 4.Be2 b5 5.Bf3

2. Kb1 is really good.
Maybe 2. ... f6. 3. ... f5 is better as a resposne for black.
Then, you have Nxf5 instead of gxf5 and the black's position isn't so weakened for a moment.
In fact, white may destroy completely the black's pawns structure in few moves (h4-h5 idea, as you proposed) but his own pawns f & g will prevent him from making a rapid mortal assault.
White has advantage but it doesn't seem decisive.

5. a3 seem worse.
I. e. the white action on the king's side will be probably similar but if black moves 5... Rb8, then b4, the whites queen's side will be considerably weakened.
As long the a and b pawns are in one line (2), the blacks pawn storm is not critical because white may close the position.
After a3, black will attack on the semi-open b column and it may be very difficult...

Cheers
GG

Originally posted by 4gats
I repeat the line we're talking about...

> 1....Nd7 2.h4 Nf6 3.Nh2 a6 4.Be2 b5 5.Bf3

2. Kb1 is really good.
Maybe 2. ... f6. 3. ... f5 is better as a resposne for black.
Then, you have Nxf5 instead of gxf5 and the black's position isn't so weakened for a moment.
In fact, white may destroy completely the black's pawns structure in few moves (h4-h5 i ...[text shortened]... black will attack on the semi-open b column and it may be very difficult...

Cheers
GG

1....Nd7 2.Kb1 f6 3.Be3 f5 4.g3 and white have better position.

1....Nd7 2.h4 Nf6 3.Nh2 a6 4.Be2 b5 5.a3 Rb8 6.b4 and black have problems to attack.

Originally posted by Korch
1....Nd7 2.Kb1 f6 3.Be3 f5 4.g3 and white have better position.

1....Nd7 2.h4 Nf6 3.Nh2 a6 4.Be2 b5 5.a3 Rb8 6.b4 and black have problems to attack.

In the line 1, you're right.
The white's position is now better.
Maybe:
3. ... b3, trying to develop the light squared bishop, reinforce the c5 (Nc5) and delay f5 ?
The advantage of delaying f5 is the g5 remains unavailable for white's minor pieces for a moment.
But generally. the black's position is worse.
2. Kb1 seems a definitive refutation of Nd7.
Point for you 🙂

In the line 2, just 6. ... a5 and the king may get discovered.
IMHO every move of the a or b pawn weakens the queen's side.

Cheers
GG

Originally posted by 4gats
In the line 1, you're right.
The white's position is now better.
Maybe:
3. ... b3, trying to develop the light squared bishop, reinforce the c5 (Nc5) and delay f5 ?
The advantage of delaying f5 is the g5 remains unavailable for white's minor pieces for a moment.
But generally. the black's position is worse.
2. Kb1 seems a definitive refutation of Nd7.
...[text shortened]... get discovered.
IMHO every move of the a or b pawn weakens the queen's side.

Cheers
GG

In line 1. did you mean 3...b6 ? I think this move is too passive for attack in queen side and allows white to play 4.g4. So after 2.Kb1 black has serious problems.

About line 2. How white king may get discovered after 6...a5 7.Kb2 ?

Originally posted by Korch
In line 1. did you mean 3...b6 ? I think this move is too passive for attack in queen side and allows white to play 4.g4. So after 2.Kb1 black has serious problems.

About line 2. How white king may get discovered after 6...a5 7.Kb2 ?

About line 1.

Of course.
3. ... b6.
I often reverse the chessboard 🙂
For me, the b6 is a move "waiting for a white's error/action".
Maybe a loss of tempo but not serious action is taken.
Thr position seems a little bit zugzwang, no really good move.
If white plays g4, black may continue at the queen's side (e.g a5, Nc5, a4) and wait h4-h5 in order to try to close the king side (g5).
But black is very cramped, true.

About line 2.

True, if bxa5 is declined, the whites king is still well protected.

Cheers
GG

Originally posted by 4gats
About line 1.

Of course.
3. ... b6.
I often reverse the chessboard 🙂
For me, the b6 is a move "waiting for a white's error/action".
Maybe a loss of tempo but not serious action is taken.
Thr position seems a little bit zugzwang, no really good move.
If white plays g4, black may continue at the queen's side (e.g a5, Nc5, a4) and wait h4-h5 in order t ...[text shortened]... line 2.

True, if bxa5 is declined, the whites king is still well protected.

Cheers
GG

So we can conclude that in diagram position black have real problems and they have some chances only in queen side - f5 only weakens black position.

Originally posted by Korch
So we can conclude that in diagram position black have real problems and they have some chances only in queen side - f5 only weakens black position.

Yes.
Nd7 is not a good move, Bd7 is really better.

Cheers
GG