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  1. 24 Apr '12 21:50 / 1 edit
    I don't often dip my toe into these players games.
    I'm not always sure what is going on. But this one I enjoyed.
    Some smart moves in this game.

    Kramnik - Aronian 3rd game.

  2. 24 Apr '12 22:23
    A cracking game indeed! Superb annotations, as usual.
  3. 24 Apr '12 23:10
    I'm glad you wrote about this game GP. I wanted to comment and this makes it a lot easier.

    My 2 cents: I thought black was objectively lost after move 20. Q + 2 connected pawns vs. 3 pieces seems pretty strong. I wonder if Aronian missed something after playing Nxc3 or maybe he just didn't like the alternatives, as you suggest.

    30 Re8 is really flashy, and I'm 100% sure I'd never had played it. In general, though, I think it shows how strong whites pawns are. They are not even that far advanced and black can't seem to muster much defense. Queen versus pieces ending are really hard for the queen when the pieces have good posts supported by pawns. None of that here, though.
  4. 24 Apr '12 23:46 / 1 edit
    Hi Erekose

    You are right about a Queen v 3 bits.
    Given the chance I always took the three bits without looking at the consequences,
    I usually won. (Infact given the chance I would sac my Queen for two bits....then
    I did not win so many.)

    Aronian either did not fancy letting Kramnik have the position he excels in
    or perhaps over estimated his chances. (That's me stating the bleeding obvious) 🙂


    Here, and remember the lad was seeing something like this moves ago
    it's a pity that Be5 is not playable because after a cleaner Bxb2+ and Rb8
    White would be in severe trouble.
    There is every chance he saw shots like this coming.

    It would be interesting to have the times to see how long Aronian took
    on d5 and then the Queen sac. It might give an indication of when he decided
    the sac was on. I cannot see him missing Bg5. Maybe he did.
    It might also reveal if Kramnik has considered the coming sac.

    There are lots of unanswered questions in these so called unfashionable openings.
    If games like this add the 4 Knights, three Knights, Two Knights, (One Knight)
    openings to the top GM's rep then it can only be a good thing.
  5. Subscriber Marinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    24 Apr '12 23:55
    You know, i feared this match would be a bit of a flop, neither player has any real incentives to push the boat out but all three games have been excellent so far! Kramnik really seems to have rediscovered some flare this year while Aronian is his off beat tactical self. Really looking forward to the next three now. 😀
  6. 25 Apr '12 00:06
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    ...There are lots of unanswered questions in these so called unfashionable openings.
    If games like this add the 4 Knights, three Knights, Two Knights, (One Knight)
    openings to the top GM's rep then it can only be a good thing.
    Yeah, I'm kind of sad Aronian didn't test whatever Kramnik had found in in the main line with 5 ... Bb4. I played the 4-knights Scotch a little bit until I concluded this the main line was just totally equal for black, not to mention a litttle barren. White just seems to have a hard time scaring up any sort of chances.
  7. 25 Apr '12 00:31
    Hi Marinkatomb

    I don't think these players ever lose their tactical flair they just never
    get a chance to show it.

    I blame these closed shop tournaments. To get in them (where the appearance
    fee and the big bucks are) you have to maintain a high grade, hence no risks
    and the very narrow openings these tournaments produce.

    In all come Opens the strong players meet much weaker players in the first
    few rounds and then they go full blast playing and meeting all kinds of different openings.

    These days the only time you see this kind of miss matching is at the Olympiads.
  8. 25 Apr '12 00:48 / 1 edit
    Hi Erekose

    "Yeah, I'm kind of sad Aronian didn't test whatever Kramnik had found in in
    the main line with 5 ... Bb4. "

    It could have been a total bluff to get Aronian to play something odd to get him
    away from Kraminik's fake prep.
    (Now Aronian's team will be looking at the 4 Knights to see what it might be.)

    Though Kramink knowng something about the Four Knights cannot come as
    a complete surprise. If White wants to he can side step Kramnik's Berlin Defence
    and go into the Four Knights.

    Obviously Kramnik has lines for Black in the 4 Knights and the Scotch
    (another anti-Berlin opening) so he might as well put the knowledge to good use
    albeit from the White side.

    4 Knights from The Berlin.

  9. Subscriber Marinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    25 Apr '12 01:39
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    Hi Marinkatomb

    I don't think these players ever lose their tactical flair they just never
    get a chance to show it.

    I blame these closed shop tournaments. To get in them (where the appearance
    fee and the big bucks are) you have to maintain a high grade, hence no risks
    and the very narrow openings these tournaments produce.

    In all come Opens ...[text shortened]... t openings.

    These days the only time you see this kind of miss matching is at the Olympiads.
    Well, i don't know. I agree about the need to maintain an elite rating with regards to income. That would suggest that this match would follow suit as it were, i was sort of aluding to that with my comment.

    It has been mentioned that the four knights is played out at top level, if memory serves, Jonathon Rowson won the British title two years running employing this very line (as black mainly, but i believe he played it as white too). While the British championship might not be a top event, you have to wonder how he showed up two years running and scored wins in this line when his opponents in the second year would definitley have prepared for it with him specifically in mind. I think there is a temptation, with the advent of computer analysis, to over estimate just how much we know about these openings. Whenever a player plays a new move, someone comes along and says something to the effect of "oh, a new move, what has his/her engine dreamed up". Kramnik is quoted on chessbase as saying top GM's are using engines to evaluate middle game positions now. You pointed out that Aronians Queen sacrafice in this game was more than likely a human move (very Aronian looking indeed) which just goes to show computers only go so far. I think Kramniks opening prep is second to none, but when i say he's rediscovered his flare i'm really refering to his openness to playing slightly less sound openings that create real complications otb. When he was playing the petrov/berlin etc, he was impossible to beat, but picked up very few wins. He seems to have realised caution is not going to cut it, maybe there was a time when his positional play was superior to most and he could manouvere a small plus into a full point, but those days are gone, especially against the likes of Aronian. I wouldn't put it past him to be fighting for first in the upcoming candidates tournament, i think he's reapraising his whole style and is using this match as an opportunity to really experiment. Great to see, he's always been a favourite player of mine, for his chess but mainly for his sheer dedication to the game. 🙂
  10. 25 Apr '12 13:04
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    There are lots of unanswered questions in these so called unfashionable openings.
    If games like this add the 4 Knights, three Knights, Two Knights, (One Knight) openings to the top GM's rep then it can only be a good thing.
    The One Knight? Is that 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Bc5? I'd love to see Kramnik play that, could be a laugh.

    Richard
  11. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    25 Apr '12 13:17 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    I don't often dip my toe into these players games.
    I'm not always sure what is going on. But this one I enjoyed.
    Some smart moves in this game.

    Kramnik - Aronian 3rd game.

    [pgn]
    1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 {Kramnik wrote recently the modern GM's are using computers to evaluate middle game positions and not looking for tweaks in the openings. back his Queen.} 49... Kxf6 50. Kxc6 {The c-pawn wins. A smashing game of chess.}[/pgn]
    IMO, this is the best post and thread to happen in some time here. Results aside, I think it is a triumph for any chess player when they play games that inspire spectating and comments from all over the world.

    I think all OTB players know what I mean when I say that it is a nice feeling when you are playing a game in a tournament, and other players in the hall gather around your board (unless you're losing, of course!), and these games are the same situation, on a much larger scale.

    I should also add that I don't think that annotating GM games is sole the province of world champions. I consider (and hope) annotations to be intelligent, insightful, well-considered opinions, not the absolute truth or final word, and thoughts that add illumination or color to a game add to my enjoyment and to my chess education.
  12. Standard member kingshill
    Mr Ring Rusty
    25 Apr '12 19:07
    My son who is a reasonably strong player (2300+) has started playing the Scotch not with a view to getting an advantage out of the opening but to get to a comfortable middle game where he can outplay his opponent.
  13. Standard member chessicle
    The Chessicle
    25 Apr '12 20:15
    I was wondering why 21 Rxe6 fxe6 22 Qxc4 doesn't work immediately, but of course 22 ... Be3! 23 Kb1 Rd1# would be the embarrassing sequel.
  14. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    25 Apr '12 20:56
    Very logical decision even far below 2300.
  15. Standard member chessicle
    The Chessicle
    26 Apr '12 21:02
    Originally posted by nimzo5
    Very logical decision even far below 2300.
    Took me a minute to realize this didn't refer to my admission of tactical stupidity (it is very logical not get mated, even far below 2300!), but then I saw the post above mine - that makes even more sense.