Longest string of accepted conditional moves

SwissGambit View Profile

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05 Dec '12 06:02

SwissGambit
Caninus Interruptus
2014.05.01
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05 Dec '12 06:022 edits
This was played on a site where it's much easier to enter conditional moves (😳), but it's my personal record: a 14-ply sequence of conditional moves was played. It arose from a desperate position in an endgame:

WHITE SG
BLACK NN
FEN 8/1p1r3p/p4p1K/4p2P/2k3P1/2P2P2/1P3R2/8 b - - 0 37
Invert Board PGN Headers Comments

[White "SG"]
[Black "NN"]
[FEN "8/1p1r3p/p4p1K/4p2P/2k3P1/2P2P2/1P3R2/8 b - - 0 37"]
37... Kd3 {not good. he's coming for my f-pawn and I don't have time for f4-g5. Or do I? After some searching, I played...} 38. f4 {*cross fingers and hope he doesn't play ...e4* I entered what turned out to be the rest of the game as conditional moves here...} Ke3 {yay! he takes the bait and goes after my Rook.} 39. fxe5 Kxf2 40. exf6 Kf3 41. g5 Kf4 42. g6 hxg6 43. hxg6 Kf5 44. f7 Rd8 45. g7 1-0
Grobzilla
Joined
16 Nov '07
Moves
2329
05 Dec '12 06:11
Nice! I just had one around 10-ply recently and I was pretty excited, but it was a mating line, and not anything as cool as a pawn race. But 14-ply is pretty rad.
jcmessy
Joined
26 Aug '11
Moves
10242
05 Dec '12 06:24
Swissgambit, would 1..b5; makes a difference??
Instead of 1..Kd3? you think??
SwissGambit
Caninus Interruptus
2014.05.01
Joined
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Moves
92274
05 Dec '12 06:30
Originally posted by jcmessy
Swissgambit, would 1..b5; makes a difference??
Instead of 1..Kd3? you think??
[fen]8/1p1r3p/p4p1K/4p2P/2k3P1/2P2P2/1P3R2/8 b - - 0 1[/fen]
No, I think ...Kd3 was right. ...b5 looks too slow. I think his error was 38...Ke3? instead of ...e4!
paulbuchmanfromfics
Joined
24 Aug '07
Moves
48477
05 Dec '12 06:37
I used to think conditional moves should be visible to the opponent. I thought of them as "if moves" from the old days. (I played a few matches by postcard years ago.) The logic of the "if move" was to speed the game along and save postage costs.

Side story: My favorite postal game:

Invert Board PGN Comments
1.d4 g6 {If any 2. ... Bg7} 2.Bh6 Bg7 3.Bxg7 {Resigns ... Brilliant- Black saved a lot of postage that game!}

Back now ... I viewed conditional moves as "if moves" when I started here. Now, I'm not so sure. Computers aren't really stamps. They have the capacity to do more things, so it's really not the same. Basically, you are just saving yourself time with a new technology.

I'd be interested in whether or not older players think conditional moves should be visibile to the opponent.
SwissGambit
Caninus Interruptus
2014.05.01
Joined
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Moves
92274
05 Dec '12 06:44
Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
I used to think conditional moves should be visible to the opponent. I thought of them as "if moves" from the old days. (I played a few matches by postcard years ago.) The logic of the "if move" was to speed the game along and save postage costs.

Side story: My favorite postal game:

[pgn]1.d4 g6 {If any 2. ... Bg7} 2.Bh6 Bg7 3.Bxg7 {Resi ...[text shortened]... ether or not older players think conditional moves should be visibile to the opponent.
I played chess by snail mail before I played online or OTB, and it seemed a little weird that the opponent couldn't see the proposed conditionals in an online game at first. But it makes sense. I don't want to reveal my entire planned sequence of moves up front if I can help it. In postal chess, it was necessary if you wanted to use conditionals; online, it isn't.
jcmessy
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10242
05 Dec '12 06:46
🙂
paulbuchmanfromfics
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48477
05 Dec '12 06:48
By the way, I didn't play the postal game above. I just got a big laugh out of it when someone showed it to me. I think it was in one of the Check Is In The Mail columns from Chess Life.
jcmessy
Joined
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Moves
10242
05 Dec '12 07:091 edit

I say Black in this Position after 1..b5 is slightly better over White.
because it's only drawish, but not so clear.
SwissGambit
Caninus Interruptus
2014.05.01
Joined
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Moves
92274
05 Dec '12 07:391 edit
Originally posted by jcmessy
[fen]8/3r3p/p4p1K/1p2p2P/2k3P1/2P2P2/1P3R2/8 b - - 0 1[/fen]
I say Black in this Position after 1..b5 is slightly better over White.
because it's only drawish, but not so clear.
That may be, but I still think ...Kd3 must be stronger than ...b5. Isn't black winning after ...Kd3 f4 e4! ?
Long Barrow
Joined
25 Jun '10
Moves
12789
05 Dec '12 12:462 edits
My longest is 16 ply, on this site a few weeks ago. Game 9657301

Black has just played 20 ... c6

FEN 2kr3r/pp1b1q2/2p1p2p/4Pp2/2QP1p2/6P1/P1P3BP/1R3RK1 w - - 0 21
Invert Board PGN Headers Comments

[FEN "2kr3r/pp1b1q2/2p1p2p/4Pp2/2QP1p2/6P1/P1P3BP/1R3RK1 w - - 0 21"]
21. Rb1b7 {This is relatively straightforward to work out in CC as the combination is pretty linear. That is black only really has one choice to answer each threat after accepting the rook. At this point I input the following moves right up until mate, motivated mainly by the fact that my opponent's time zone meant we would only exchange a couple of moves daily. This would give him the opportunity to reply sooner if he chose, while I was still in bed!} Kxb7 22. Rf1b1 Kb7c7 {If Ka8 then Bxc6+ etc} 23. Qc4c5 Rd8a8 {Otherwise Qxa7 forces mate similar to the game. The e5 pawn is a central element to this combination covering key escape squares once white's heavy pieces break in.} 24. Qc5a5 Kc7c8 25. Bg2f1 {This is the move that probably would have me reject the rook sacrifice OTB as it is difficult to see at move 21. With a peg set or analyse board it is easy of course because black still has almost no choice of replies.} a6 {The only move to prevent Ba6 mate. If Be8 then the black queen is forced to interpose on b7 to no avail, or lost to Rb7. Black now gives up rook and pawn for bishop to allow the king to escape} 26. Bf1xa6 Ra8xa6 27. Qa5xa6 Kc8d8 28. Rb1b8 {Winning the h8 rook anyway even if mate on the weakened dark squares was not available.} Kd8e7 29. Qa6a3 {At this point, 48 hours or so after I had input the moves, my opponent resigned and the last two conditionals were not played.} c5 30. Qxc5

As a former postal player I can say it doesn't bother me that the opponent can't see the conditionals here. On RHP you have the option to remove them before they are accepted so the old advice not to use them doesn't hold. I can remember one opponent sent me a conditional along the lines of "If you are following the analysis given in John Nunn's The Complete Pirc page whatever it was - then I'm happy to go up to move 15!" I'm not sure how you could do that in the electronic age.
Paul Leggett
Chess Librarian
The Stacks
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113572
05 Dec '12 15:09
Originally posted by SwissGambit
That may be, but I still think ...Kd3 must be stronger than ...b5. Isn't black winning after ...Kd3 f4 e4! ?
Just offhand, my first instinct would be to move the king and leave my b-pawn back, as I would prefer to reserve those pawn moves for when I might need them later. I have a quote from Jonathan Speelman about "Tempi must be hoarded" going through my head.
greenpawn34
e4
Joined
06 May '08
Moves
42492
05 Dec '12 15:38
Super Swindle SG. Deserves to be more well known.

You could have built a blog around it.
Show 2-3 studies with with pawns outpacing a King. (not the Ret one - too well known.)
1-2 studies where pawns on the 6th beat a Rook

Then 'Is This of any Practical Use?'
You show your game.

Too late now, it's mine.
Danny Kopec has got me to do a re-write of my section in Master Chess
(not a bad book that, it was re-published 21 times including translated into Spanish.)

I am adding a section about Interent Tactics - this is in (PM what site it was on)
as will be a fair few other RHP examples. Expect the new version to be out in February 2013.

As an old postal player I welcome the hidden conditional moves.
You could not have sent that line in the olden days as the player would see
what you were up to.
Hidden conditionals are good. It's a pity you cannot see what was a conditional
move after it has been played. I bet some real howlers have been sent.

My max is one move! I gave up a long time ago trying to guess what the
lads on here will do next.

I'm sure I would not have guessed White's 7th move.

Bobla45 - SammyJ, RHP 2008
Invert Board PGN

1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Bf5 3.Ne5 f6 4.g4 Bg6 5.Nxg6 hxg6 6.Bg2 Qd6 7.0-0 Qxh2

It can also be tough guessing what is coming next in OTB play.

D.James (2270) - D.Bisby (2120) Hastings 1995

White has 33 moves that don't mate him in one move.

He chose a 34th. Castles.

And was duly mated with Qxh2.
SwissGambit
Caninus Interruptus
2014.05.01
Joined
11 Apr '07
Moves
92274
05 Dec '12 16:30
Originally posted by greenpawn34
Super Swindle SG. Deserves to be more well known.

You could have built a blog around it.
Show 2-3 studies with with pawns outpacing a King. (not the Ret one - too well known.)
1-2 studies where pawns on the 6th beat a Rook

Then 'Is This of any Practical Use?'
You show your game.

Too late now, [b]it's mine.
Danny Kopec has got me to do a ...[text shortened]... 2/2p1pP2/1p4B1/PbpP4/2N5/1P2BPPP/R2Q1RK1 b kq - 0 14[/fen]
And was duly mated with Qxh2.[/b]
Blogs about endgame studies aren't my thing. 😛

Feel free to publicize for me if you wish. 🙂
greenpawn34
e4
Joined
06 May '08
Moves
42492
05 Dec '12 16:38
"Blogs about endgame studies aren't my thing."

Well I'm not doing them, I'd screw them up.

(I gave you your, to date, sole thumbs up, so your swindle is now mine.)

WHITE	SG
BLACK	NN
FEN	8/1p1r3p/p4p1K/4p2P/2k3P1/2P2P2/1P3R2/8 b - - 0 37

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Longest string of accepted conditional moves