29 Jan 07
Originally posted by rugby propIt also depends on the position. I can look ahead 20 moves when the position is very very simple and I'm a patzer compared to a GM. When I play my computer I try to get into positions where there is a simple plan, otherwise I am dead.
I have read that grandmasters can look up to 20 moves ahead! But lets say a GM played a 1500 player, could they look this far ahead? Wouldn't the 1500 player make a mistake, either small or big, that would keep a GM from doing this.
You have a point though, against me if a GM realised how rubbish I was, he would just give me complicated choices and let me chose the wrong one. He would not waste his best play on me. If I was Kaspy, a GM would try to force the play into a line they know VERY well.
This is not always true however, some GM's are stupid and play the board rather than the player.
29 Jan 07
Originally posted by rugby propCompared to a GM, a 1500 rated player would not be able to make accurate moves, all a GM would have to do is play solidly to gain a comfortable edge.
I have read that grandmasters can look up to 20 moves ahead! But lets say a GM played a 1500 player, could they look this far ahead? Wouldn't the 1500 player make a mistake, either small or big, that would keep a GM from doing this.
Then he would target the weaknesses in the 1500s position and the other player will either blunder or succumb eventually.
29 Jan 07
Originally posted by petrosianpupilWould a GM play a move against a weak palyer that he wouldn't play against another GM? For example, he may anticipate you not to see the forced checkmate you fell into for taking a free rook.
It also depends on the position. I can look ahead 20 moves when the position is very very simple and I'm a patzer compared to a GM. When I play my computer I try to get into positions where there is a simple plan, otherwise I am dead.
You have a point though, against me if a GM realised how rubbish I was, he would just give me complicated choices a ...[text shortened]... is is not always true however, some GM's are stupid and play the board rather than the player.
29 Jan 07
Originally posted by petrosianpupilYou are either some kind of idiot savant or an idiot because no one can see 20 moves ahead that is about 3 billion different positions
It also depends on the position. I can look ahead 20 moves when the position is very very simple and I'm a patzer compared to a GM. When I play my computer I try to get into positions where there is a simple plan, otherwise I am dead.
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29 Jan 07
Originally posted by rugby propWhat exactly does it mean to "look 20 moves ahead"? Or what does it mean to "look 2 moves ahead" for that matter?
I have read that grandmasters can look up to 20 moves ahead! But lets say a GM played a 1500 player, could they look this far ahead? Wouldn't the 1500 player make a mistake, either small or big, that would keep a GM from doing this.
In order to say you've looked 20 moves ahead is it necessary to examine all possible combinations exhaustively. In the middle game, this might be equivalent to 1x10^50 board positions. No one can do that.
Alternitvely, can one claim to have looked 20 moves ahead if he has considered a single line of play all the way to 20 moves? That is only 40 board positions counting a ply for white and a ply for black. I can do that rather easily. Although it is not often that the end position of a 20 move search would have any bearing on the game at hand, except possibly late in the end game.
I'd guess that most of us often look a half dozen or so moves ahead considering one meaningful search path, but it is harder and harder to search even a single meaningful line ahead as you look further and further ahead. And anyone who says they search exhaustively for 20 or more moves, I say no way.
With such a wide variance between searching a single path for X moves an searching exhaustively for X moves, it is a wonder that few ever say what they mean when they say someone is searching X moves ahead.
29 Jan 07
1 edit
Originally posted by techsouthI don't believe anyone can do 20 move lines in their heads. So if you had a puzzle that was a MATE IN 20 you'd have no problem with this right?????
What exactly does it mean to "look 20 moves ahead"? Or what does it mean to "look 2 moves ahead" for that matter?
In order to say you've looked 20 moves ahead is it necessary to examine all possible combinations exhaustively. In the middle game, this might be equivalent to 1x10^50 board positions. No one can do that.
Alternitvely, can one claim to wonder that few ever say what they mean when they say someone is searching X moves ahead.
Edit- I believe that some people on earth could do 20 move lines in their heads but they would have to have a special type of brain.
29 Jan 07
Originally posted by Dies IraeWell I wasn't precluding correspondence chess in which an auxillary chess board is allowed, although technically I might trace 20 valid moves without it given a trivial setup or a trivial line of play.
I don't believe anyone can do 20 move lines in their heads. So if you had a puzzle that was a MATE IN 20 you'd have no problem with this right?????
Edit- I believe that some people on earth could do 20 move lines in their heads but they would have to have a special type of brain.
But if you believe a claim to be able to do a single line for 20 moves means one could solve a mate in 20, then you either didn't read or misunderstood my post that makes the distinction between an "exhaustive search" and a "single line of play". If I was staring at a MATE IN 20, then mearly tracing out 20 haphazart moves in one line of play is by no means likely to produce the solution.
The point is, it is fairly easy to skillessly track 20 moves into the future along a single line of play (providing no advantage to the game at hand), but that not a soul on earth could track 20 move ahead exhaustively along all lines of play. All this was more to ask the question, exactly what is meant one someone boast of a great player who looks "X moves ahead"?