Originally posted by OutpostI was just thinking about those two positions last night. I looked them up in an endgame book I have but sadly I have never had it occur to me as most of my endgames are not rook endings.
In a rook endgame , did this position ever occur to one of you?
If so, please be so kind to post yr game.
Strangely the second game I checked had the position:
[Event "ICC 2 12 u"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2007.03.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "chrspayn"]
[Black "anon19"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B40"]
[WhiteElo "1710"]
[PlyCount "137"]
[EventDate "2007.??.??"]
[TimeControl "120+12"]
1. e4 e6 2. Nf3 c5 3. g3 Nc6 4. Bg2 d5 5. exd5 exd5 6. O-O Be7 7. d4 Nf6 8.
dxc5 O-O 9. Bg5 h6 10. Bf4 g5 11. Be3 Bg4 12. Qd3 Bh5 13. Nd4 Bg6 14. Qd2 Ne5
15. Nb3 Nc4 16. Qc3 Nxe3 17. Qxe3 Re8 18. Nc3 Bf8 19. Qd4 Bxc2 20. Nxd5 Bg7 21.
Nxf6+ Bxf6 22. Qxd8 Raxd8 23. Rac1 Bxb3 24. axb3 Bxb2 25. Rc2 Bd4 26. Bxb7 Rb8
27. c6 Bb6 28. Rd1 Re7 29. Rd6 Kg7 30. b4 Bc7 31. Rd7 Rxd7 32. cxd7 Bd8 33. Rc8
Rxb7 34. Rxd8 Kf6 35. Rh8 Rxd7 36. Rxh6+ Kg7 37. Ra6 Rb7 38. Ra4 f6 39. f3 Kf7
40. Kf2 Re7 41. b5 Kg6 42. h4 Kh5 43. hxg5 fxg5 44. Rc4 Re5 45. Rb4 Kg6 46. f4
gxf4 47. gxf4 Re7 48. Kf3 Kf5 49. Rc4 Rb7 50. Rc5+ Kf6 51. Ke4 Re7+ 52. Kd4
Rd7+ 53. Kc4 Rb7 54. Kb4 Ke7 55. Ka5 Kd6 56. Rc6+ Kd5 57. Rc8 Rf7 58. Ka6 Ke4
59. Ra8 Kd5 60. Rxa7 Rxf4 61. Rc7 Ra4+ 62. Kb7 Rb4 63. b6 Rb5 64. Ka7 Ra5+ 65.
Kb8 Kd6 66. Rc1 Rb5 67. b7 Rb2 68. Rd1+ Kc6 69. Kc8 {Black resigns} 1-0
- Joined
- 20 Jan 07
- Moves
- 24588
Originally posted by gaychessplayerI think you're all missing the point! The reason that these two positions are so important isn't that they come up so frequently, far from it, but that reaching the Lucena ( attcking) and getting to the Philidor ( defending) are the key to all rook endings.
I've seldom had a Lucena or Philidor position come up. (I guess being totally busted before the endgame has something to do with it.) 😛
Thus you often find games where one side or the other is trying to move the game to a given position. As we all know, Lucena is a won position for the attacker and Philidor a draw for the defending side, That's why it's so important to have at least a basic understanding of them.
Just my opinion.
Originally posted by TalismanExactly. Philidor and Lucena are latent threats in many games when they do not occur. I've been going through my databases looking at rook endings, and the elements of either Lucena or Philidor (and sometimes both) are present in a significant percentage even though textbook examples of the positions are relatively rare.
I think you're all missing the point! The reason that these two positions are so important isn't that they come up so frequently, far from it, but that reaching the Lucena ( attcking) and getting to the Philidor ( defending) are the key to all rook endings.
Here's one recent example:
After 55...Ra4
[Event "ICC"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2007.09.09"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Wulebgr"]
[Black "alex"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D25"]
[Annotator "Stripes,James"]
[PlyCount "131"]
[EventDate "2007.??.??"]
[TimeControl "300"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. e3 c5 5. Bxc4 cxd4 6. Qxd4 Qxd4 7. Nxd4 e6 8.
Nc3 Bb4 9. Bd2 O-O 10. Nc2 Bd6 11. Rd1 Nc6 12. Nb5 Be5 13. Bc3 Bxc3+ 14. Nxc3
b6 15. O-O Na5 16. Be2 Bb7 17. Nb5 Ba6 18. b4 Nc6 19. Ncd4 Nxd4 20. Rxd4 Nd5
21. a3 Rac8 22. Rfd1 Rc2 23. Bf1 Bxb5 24. Bxb5 Ra2 25. a4 a6 26. Bc6 Rd8 27.
Bxd5 Rxd5 28. h3 Kf8 29. Rxd5 exd5 30. b5 Rxa4 31. bxa6 Rxa6 32. Rxd5 Ke7 33.
Rb5 Kd6 34. Kf1 Kc6 35. Rb2 b5 36. Ke2 Rb6 37. Kd2 Kd5 38. Kc3 Kc5 39. f3 f5
40. Kb3 g5 41. Rc2+ Kd5 42. Rc8 h6 43. Kb4 Ke6 44. Rc5 Rd6 45. Kxb5 Rd2 46.
Rc6+ Kf7 47. g4 fxg4 48. hxg4 Rf2 49. Rxh6 Rxf3 50. Rh5 Kg6 51. Kc4 Rxe3 52.
Kd4 Rf3 53. Rh8 Rf4+ 54. Ke3 Rxg4 55. Kf3 Ra4 56. Kg3 Kg7 57. Re8 Kf7 58. Re3
Kf6 59. Rb3 Kg6 60. Rc3 Kh5 61. Kh3 Rh4+ 62. Kg3 Rg4+ 63. Kh3 Rd4 64. Rb3 Re4
65. Kg3 Rd4 66. Kh3 1/2-1/2