Correct definition of the word ' luck' is success in regard to the consequences of random chance.The moves on a chessboard are not the consequences of random chance if they are selected deliberately,and if not selected deliberately,then they can only be selected unintentionally. this is not luck but the consequences of an unintentional move/s. Such consequences can however be considered fortunate/unfortunate to the player/s concerned and in that respect only, a player can be said to have been lucky or unlucky. Fortunate however is a more precise definition----------------Alr
Originally posted by moteutschIf there were no luck in the real world, then why do think people go to Las Vegas?
There is no such thing as Luck, period. You roll a die: Physics. You miss a plane that crashes? Statistics.
Every instance of 'Luck' has a logical explanation.
The standard definition of the word 'Luck' differs from the mathematical definition.
Originally posted by moteutschWell, first of all you could use a single quantum transition to decide the fate of Herr Schrödinger´s cat, in which case the cat´s fate is determined by something entirely stochastic.
There is no such thing as Luck, period. You roll a die: Physics. You miss a plane that crashes? Statistics.
Every instance of 'Luck' has a logical explanation.
Obviously chess involves luck. The game is drawn from the start. You move pieces round from one position to another and since you can´t tell whether you are making a mistake or not (assuming you don´t intentionally make mistakes) it is entirely a matter of luck whether you make a result changing error or not - your skill just determines how frequently you do this and how obvious it is to your opponent that they have a won game and how to win it.
"you cannot tell if you are making a mistake or not" is not correct,in chess play you can indeed tell if you are making a mistake or not by knowing in advance of selection which moves are 'mistakes' and consequently avoiding such moves when you take enough care and pay enough attention to your selected moves.There is however without doubt an element of ' random chance ' in certain features of the game as by word definition random chance means'luck'.However this need not apply to your own moves if they be totally within your own control throughout a game,and all other relevant facts are likewise .As there is no way to control the moves made by your opponent it must be accepted that an element of random chance may occur at some stage in the game,if it be somewhere outside your opponents total control. This however does not apply to deliberate opponent moves which subsequently prove to be error/s,this is not random chance but is more accurately described as poor move selection.😴
"you cannot tell if you are making a mistake or not" is not correct,in chess play you can indeed tell if you are making a mistake or not by knowing in advance of selection which moves are 'mistakes' and consequently avoiding such moves when you take enough care and pay enough attention to your selected moves".
This statement isn't correct. At the moment the game of chess hasn't been solved, so it's entirely possible that, for example, 1.e4 will prove to be a mistake whereas 1.Nf3 may be the only way to force a win!
I'm sure someone like Anand 'takes enough care and pays enough attention', it doesn't mean he can't make mistakes!
Originally posted by streetfighterI like the term forced win. This leads to refutations. So there have already been openings refuted meaning that against that opening there is a forced win. However there are so many possibilities in the middle game that it is impossible to say that e4 has a forced win or e4 is a losing move. Chess will never be solved, because if your "forced win" is only one variation then your opponent has the option of switching paths. As chess goes on there are just going to be less openings with credibility and not a single person could ever know every forced win in every variation.
[b] "you cannot tell if you are making a mistake or not" is not correct,in chess play you can indeed tell if you are making a mistake or not by knowing in advance of selection which moves are 'mistakes' and consequently avoiding such moves when you take enough care and pay enough attention to your selected moves".
This statement isn't correct. ...[text shortened]... kes enough care and pays enough attention', it doesn't mean he can't make mistakes![/b]
It is possible that 1-e4 is not 'best correct'or 1 -d4 1- c4 etc, however the idea is at best a 'theory' and will remain so until proved otherwise as all theories are.Present past and future world champions do make'mistakes' the definition of which in this case is a move or moves not proven up to that time to be best or better than proven theory,however these moves are intentional moves for the most part and are therefore not based upon random chance,and some moves are indeed unintentional and are subject to the possibility of random chance consequences. The correct definition of chess theoty is ,those lines and variations of lines/moves which have proved to be by experience , the most acceptable so far in a specific given position. It is an accurate statement that no player is this far capable of forcing a win in chess with black or white before or after move one. Consequently the search remains valid for such a forced win. This search continues to be made by chess players at all levels of knowledge. The possible positions in chess total such large numbers that much research remains to be completed and may well never be completed. For now the existing theory will continue to be used and adjusted as deemed correct and necessary.😉
Originally posted by RECUVICSo you make moves knowing them to be incorrect? No one ever makes a deliberate mistake except when playing children. Since when you make a move you do so in the belief that it´s the one that gives your opponent the most trouble then when you make a mistake you do not know you are making it. You might realize the moment it´s too late, or work it out in the post-mortem, but that is not the same thing.
"you cannot tell if you are making a mistake or not" is not correct,in chess play you can indeed tell if you are making a mistake or not by knowing in advance of selection which moves are 'mistakes' and consequently avoiding such moves when you take enough care and pay enough attention to your selected moves.There is however without doubt an element of ' ran ...[text shortened]... r/s,this is not random chance but is more accurately described as poor move selection.😴
In noughts and crosses (tic-tac-toe) it is possible for a human to play perfectly. Our brains can cope with calculating all the possibilities to the end of the game - here there really is no excuse for making a bad move. This is why it isn´t a good game.
Chess is a good game because it is so complicated that humans can´t really cope with it, in general completely exhaustive calculation is not possible, so we rely on strategies such as exploiting space to compensate. When you make a move you don´t know for sure that it isn´t losing - so, assuming that it isn´t obviously a mistake, if you make a move which turns out to be losing then your opponent played well and you were unlucky.