Just wondering if anybody had any opinions on this.
I am a pretty low level player and I find that a lot of people at my level advance their a and h file pawns one rank in the opening as standard procedure. Now I know that to defend against the Ruy-Lopez it would be considered normal to advance your a file pawn, and I guess it's standard procedure in some other openings to move one of these pawns, but it seems that so many people do this all of the time. Why do people do this, and is it a theoretically sound way to open the game? Thought that it is possibly a bad move as it may cause defensive problems with castling later in the game?
Cheers everyone,
lordgledhill
PS - If I've said anything daft here, please, forgive my ignorance, I am only a beginner!
Originally posted by lordgledhillIt is a bad move because it has no purpose on the first move of the game and allows your opponent to advance with his own plans unhindered.
Just wondering if anybody had any opinions on this.
I am a pretty low level player and I find that a lot of people at my level advance their a and h file pawns one rank in the opening as standard procedure. Now I know that to defend against the Ruy-Lopez it would be considered normal to advance your a file pawn, and I guess it's standard procedure i ...[text shortened]... l
PS - If I've said anything daft here, please, forgive my ignorance, I am only a beginner!
When I first started here not too long ago, I noticed that quite a few 1200 players did that...they would push the pawn as far as h4 or h3 even as black for example. THey wasted tempo while I developed. Often, it seems low rated players do that to develop the rook which is a very questionable tactic.
Like you said, for example in Ruy Lopez it is common, but still usually only done to a6 for black and a3 for white. Doing it in the first or second move is a waste of tempo. It should be done sparingly as it weakens the castle (either side) and wastes tempo unless done for a specific reason.
Originally posted by MrHandI don't see it as a weakening of the castled position. In fact, it keeps potential attacking pieces from landing on g4.
When I first started here not too long ago, I noticed that quite a few 1200 players did that...they would push the pawn as far as h4 or h3 even as black for example. THey wasted tempo while I developed. Often, it seems low rated players do that to develop the rook which is a very questionable tactic.
Like you said, for example in Ruy Lopez it is common, ...[text shortened]... ingly as it weakens the castle (either side) and wastes tempo unless done for a specific reason.
Originally posted by tomtom232For example look at h3 as white with a king side castle. It is a double edged sword. You prevent/remove pins on a Nf3, however down the road, that pawn can be vulnerable to a bishop sacrifice to open up the castle whereas that vulnerability doesn't exist with the pawn on a2.
I don't see it as a weakening of the castled position. In fact, it keeps potential attacking pieces from landing on g4.
Perhaps it is overstating to say that it ALWAYS weakens the castle, but given my druthers, I prefer flat pawns unless I'm playing a King's Indian Attack or Defense.
Originally posted by MrHandThe a3 square is just as vulnerable when a pawn is there as when it isn't. If an opponent can soundly move his bishop onto the a3 square then you probably have more trouble than just a lost pawn. I'll give Bxa3 opens the a-file but like I said before, the fact that your opponent can safely move a bishop there probably means you are losing anyway.
For example look at h3 as white with a king side castle. It is a double edged sword. You prevent/remove pins on a Nf3, however down the road, that pawn can be vulnerable to a bishop sacrifice to open up the castle whereas that vulnerability doesn't exist with the pawn on a2.
Perhaps it is overstating to say that it ALWAYS weakens the castle, but given my druthers, I prefer flat pawns unless I'm playing a King's Indian Attack or Defense.
Originally posted by tomtom232fair point.
The a3 square is just as vulnerable when a pawn is there as when it isn't. If an opponent can soundly move his bishop onto the a3 square then you probably have more trouble than just a lost pawn. I'll give it the fact that it Bxa3 also opens the a-file but like I said before, the fact that your opponent can safely move a bishop there probably means you are losing anyway.
Well, in many openings where players castle on opposite sides, with the most common one being the Yugoslav attack, this is standard procedure.
However, it usually only makes sense if you are not significantly weakening your king in the process.
In the dragon, however, it can be devistating.
IM Michael Basman played some tournament games in which he played 1...a3, 2...h3 as White, and 1...a6, 2...h6 as Black. He wrote a booklet analyzing some of these games, called The Creepy Crawly Opening.
There is another book that was written by an amateur under the psuedonymn "Pafu." The book is called The Center Game, and you can read the entire book for free at his website: http://www.beginnersgame.com
Note this game that I played with this opening and the devasting psychological effect it had on my opponent:
Game 3198051
Originally posted by tomtom232I understand the point, but to me, it seems like you weaken your castled King a little by playing h6 or h3. Whenever I'm playing against someone who plays h6, visions of Bxh6 immediately start dancing in my head. It also makes g6 more vulnerable, especially if white has a bishop on c4, as in the Italian.
The a3 square is just as vulnerable when a pawn is there as when it isn't. If an opponent can soundly move his bishop onto the a3 square then you probably have more trouble than just a lost pawn. I'll give Bxa3 opens the a-file but like I said before, the fact that your opponent can safely move a bishop there probably means you are losing anyway.
In the game below, which I just finished yesterday, I played the whole opening to set up Bxh6. Yes, my opponent blundered by playing 20... Bc8, but I felt I had an advantage anyway.
Game 5522554
Originally posted by lordgledhillPlaying on flanks (including moving h and a pawns) is the most useful when position in center is stabilized.
Just wondering if anybody had any opinions on this.
I am a pretty low level player and I find that a lot of people at my level advance their a and h file pawns one rank in the opening as standard procedure. Now I know that to defend against the Ruy-Lopez it would be considered normal to advance your a file pawn, and I guess it's standard procedure i ...[text shortened]... l
PS - If I've said anything daft here, please, forgive my ignorance, I am only a beginner!
Classic example of early moving of h-pawn.
It seems to me that beginners look at advancing their h pawn to attack the king side. The assumption is that the opponent will castle king side. It works against lower rated players, so they keep doing it. If you win doing it, then it must be a good idea.
But it won't work when you play higher rated players, so eventually they'll have to give it up. Either that or just keep playing lower rated players if they want to win.
As for the original question:
Now I know that to defend against the Ruy-Lopez it would be considered normal to advance your a file pawn, and I guess it's standard procedure in some other openings to move one of these pawns, but it seems that so many people do this all of the time. Why do people do this, and is it a theoretically sound way to open the game? Thought that it is possibly a bad move as it may cause defensive problems with castling later in the game?
They do this so that people don't put knights or bishops on b4 or g4 when they are white, or b6 or g6 as black.
pushing the h pawn doesn't just offer a target for a bishop, it also weakens the defense to the g6 square, especially if the f pawn happens to be pinned. I think there is a famous Carlsen game where he sacrifices a knight on g6 because his opponent played h6 (caro-kann line).
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1272702
There it is. The mate at the end is memorable.
Not sure how accurate this is, but I think there is maybe one line which doesn't end in mate but black looses to much material to keep playing.
After Rxh6 gxh6 is forced and then play might continue 22 Qxe7 ...Rde8 (Black must not allow Bxh6 now) 23 g7+ ...Kg8 24 g7xf8+ ... Rxf8 25 Bxh6? ... Rf7? 26 Qe5???
don't mnd the ? marks they don't mean the move is bad, just that I have no idea what should be played.
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1340393